JLT and JLTC

[Eagledad]

Hi Dan

 

Junior leader training comes under many titles. JLT is more of a general term referencing junior training of some type. The BSA produced a JLT Kit for units which many folks think about when they hear JLT. But there are many other names for Unit and District JLT type Training called PLD patrol leaders training. But there are so many names and acronyms that you still have to ask about the type of course. There are several Council course names alone. JLTC, Pine Tree, Brownsea and so on. JLT Thunderbird is new to me but I really like that one. That one could have a really cool logo and patch.

 

Hope this helps

 

Barry

 

[Bob White]

Hi OGE I appreciate that you and many others would have been positve participants. Much of what has been written on this thread appeared in other peoples comments in the discussion.

 

The internet bulletin board had a public and private side. I don't know how it was publicized but it had a number of adult and youth participants. The private side was by invitation and it had about 4 dozen scouters or more who are heavily involved in training at national., council and district levels.

 

Before anyone screams that this was clandestine, it was not. The realistic fact is there are over a million scouters and everyone has an opinion. It is not practical to try to filter all that information without trimming it down to a workable size.

 

Bob White

[Eagledad]

>>I am curious about the posters who say that leadership training should begin in the troop early on, when in fact that has been the program for over ten years.

[Bob White]

EagleDad,

I understand what you are saying...but, returninbg to my question..what percentage of your new scouts complete first class in about the first year.

 

No part of the BSA program measures success by the number of Eagle Scouts. But there is an advancement gaol of first Class in the first year.

 

BE

[Zahnada]

Yes, it does upset me that I missed the boat on national JLT planning. It's too bad. But that won't stop me from speculating and developing theories of what a JLTC should look like. I'm like a sports fan who keeps imagining what trades his team should do to improve. Realistically, it will take probably 2 more summers before a completed version of the JLT is handed out to Councils. That's an enternity for a boy in scouting. I've been told that scouting is done at the local level, so I shall keep improving our council's JLTC until I can get my hands on the national program. And then, there are probably many camp specific changes that will need to be made on that. Nothing is perfect.

 

But back to the 11 Skills of Leadership...

 

My previous argument is that we need less class time in leadership camps. Learning takes place through activity, discoveries, and reflection. A lot of class time can be cut out by just trimming the fat from many of the skills. The wording repeats itself horribly and becomes very confusing. An effective boy leader shouldn't have to turn to his notes to remember how to initiate a planning session because there are so many steps and theories.

 

So let's not clutter up the camp with classes that may give a nice theoretical or abstract background to leadership. Let's focus on classes that boys can and will easily apply.

 

Some just need to be removed. Counseling is one that comes to mind. It is incredubly abstract and confusing. I believe that in the beginning it says something like, "Most counseling should be performed by an adult leader." This is a skill that few people understand, remember, or will ever use.

 

Next up is Controlling Group Performance. This class has a great title and sounds very important. The actual class leaves much to be desired. It is basically a class that says, "Everything will work out if you plan, evaluate, and set the example. Be sure to understand the needs and characteristics and resources of the group as well." While this may work well for an overview of the course, it should then be titled "Bringing it all Together" or something and should focus towards that task. Right now, it is a skill that is long, and fairly inactive. The purpose of Controlling Group Performance could be achieved through classes like Planning, Evaluating, and Setting the Example.

 

The final class that should be removed from the curriculum is Representing the Group. Once again, here is an example of a great theoretical concept, but not enough of one to warrant its own class. This class can be summed up in a few minutes "Patrol leaders wear two hats" and can be presented at the daily PLC. Every scout should eventually attend a PLC and will learn the skill in a way where it actually applies more. This would be helped even more if the PLC used patrol opinions to plan events. But a camp should not take the time to make this its own class.

 

Well, those are the first three that I would remove from the curriculum in their entirety (except for Representing which would have concepts introduced through daily PLCs). That brings us down to the 8 Skills of Leadership. It's a bit more manageable, but still a little large. Tell me what you think.

 

Tune in next time for: Zahnada's reworking and combining of classes to reach his optimal 4-5 Skills of Leadership.

[Eagledad]

Hi Bob

I guess YOUR Council doesnt track Eagle success, but ours delivers a good job speech with numbers every four months. Oh well, I guess the farther away you are from the scouts, the harder it is to find common successes to praise.

 

Our Troop doesnt track rank annually, at least we don't add the numbers. The SMHB says, ideally scouts should get to first class in their first year. I have not been able to find how they determined that, but it may have come from the same study that suggests the ideal troop size somewhere around 30. I've seen several SMs take that first year suggestion to heart and stump their program with too much focus on that one method.

 

We do watch losses if that helps you. Between 5 to 10 percent for the first year scouts when we finally developed a New Scout program we liked. By the way, typically those losses came in the first six months. I found that to be about the same in units around us. I would enjoy finding out if that is true nationally, but they dont track that.

 

Thanks for the reply. Have a good evening.

 

Barry

 

[Bob White]

You misunderstand EagleDad. My council does indeed track the number of Eagles in order to recognize them at a special Eagle event. But no where has the BSA ever used the number of Eagles as a measure of a units program. the eagle is an individual choice and is not the goal of scouting. if it were then we would be doing a terrible job of achieving our mission since only 5% of scouts achieve the eagle rank.

 

"Oh well, I guess the farther away you are from the scouts, the harder it is to find common successes to praise."

 

You'll need to explain to me what you mean by that. If you are suggesting that I have little contact with scouts, that's not the case. I am a unit leader and have a son finishing work on his Life rank.

 

First Class in the First Year is more that a suggestion to Scoutmasters. It is part of the promise made to scouts in the first few pages of every Boy Scout handbook.

 

Actually the ideal troop size I believe is said to be about 30 to 60. The reason is that at thirty there are enough scouts to have 4 patrols a a full compliment of Junior Leaders as well as a deep enough adult resource pool to have a sufficient number of leaders and committee members. The reason they suggest 60as a maximum is because with 8 patrols you have 8 patrol leaders.

 

The BSA suggests patrols be limited in size to around 8 because that is a manageable number for a boy leader and still a natural size social group for a boy to operate in. So 8 patrol leaders is about all an SPL can handle effectively. There is truly a method to what some see as madness in the program.

 

I was not criticizing what the troop was doing. I was trying to shaow that the method of dealing with new scouts that the unit developed was in fact the New Scout program that the BSA organized years ago. And I expect if you checked your advancement records you would discover that most the boys achieved First Class around there first year anniversarry. Another part of the advancement method.

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[KoreaScouter]

I'm also concerned about offering the same Troop JLT after our elections in March. Depending on who gets elected, at least a few of our Scouts will have had the same TJLT four times.

 

We issue copies of the new PL and SPL handbooks to all our green bars, including the assistants. What we haven't done is make the connection between the books (I think they're fabulous, by the way -- my congratulations to whoever worked on them!) and the Troop JLT.

 

As I write this, I'm designing our lesson plan for our next TJLT, based on the PL/SPL handbooks. The sections almost completely dovetail, with the SPL somewhat deeper and broader of course. Importantly, they're complimentary, and really start the focus from the theoretical to the practical. Exercises and activities after each section will reinforce the material, get the green bars some hands-on, and break up whatever monotony may set in from the powerpoint slides (none I hope).

 

I'm glad to hear BSA is revising TJLT, and that it may follow the new handbooks. I can't wait until it hits the streets, and hope it's not too much different from my own.

 

KS

[Zahnada]

NOOOO!!! I can't let this topic slip down the Open Discussion page into obscurity!! I won't let it!

 

Leadership is the key to Boy Scouts! It is what separates us from any other organization in the country. Church youth groups teach morals and community service. Explorers and other groups not tied down to heavily by BSAs liability protection have outdoor experiences. But where will you find leadership?

 

I've looked at resumes of people who try to kid themselves that they have leadership experience. "I was on Honor Roll so therefore I was a roll model to the school. That's a type of leadership." I seriously read that on a resume.

 

But look at a boy scout's resume. "I was directly in charge of a group of 8 boys for 6 months. I represented them and taught them and led them." "I planned activities for a troop of 40 boys for 6 months." "I was an instructor for a summer for hundreds of boys."

 

Leadership is probably the most important thing that boys get from scouting. Not to say that morals aren't important. They actually go together. A good leader is a moral leader. But the leadership experience is what makes a boy who's a scout look, act, and just seem a little different from any other boy.

 

That's why I wanted to push this topic back to the top of the list. I know that BSA is restructuring their JLT right now, but I still want to hear ideas. Nothing is perfect. Tell this forum what you like and what you don't like about scouting leadership policies no matter how radical. I just tore apart the 11 Steps of Leadership (and have more tearing to do) and nobody's challenged me.

 

anyway, this post really doesn't have much of a purpose but to raise this topic back up on the forum.

[Hanaski]

I've always had a problem with the 11 Skills as they are laid out in the current JLTC syllabus. So tear away.

 

I am genuinely worried about what will come of the new JLTC. So much widespread attention has been directed toward Woodbadge; a program that so much as borrows a theme from Woodbadge will suffer. But who's to know until it's released? I would enjoy nothing more than to visit and observe one of the test camps this summer.

 

Yes, troop JLTs are important. But ask around--there are plenty of Scoutmasters who run an optimal weekend JLT and would be happy to share their secrets. If national doesn't release a troop JLT (and I wouldn't hold your breath), it's not the end of the world.

[Eagledad]

Hi Bob, been out a while. I guess we have to get through this.

 

>>But no where has the BSA ever used the number of Eagles as a measure of a units program.>>>"Oh well, I guess the farther away you are from the scouts, the harder it is to find common successes to praise."

[Zahnada]

I've looked at resumes today. You know what so many boys have under the heading of "Leadership"? I've seen tour guides as leadership positions. I've seen honor roll students as leaders because "We set the example for the school." I've seen secretaries of many clubs that only have half a dozen members pass as leadership. I don't mean to belittle these tasks, but none compares to organizing events for six months for 50 boys.

 

Leadership is a beautiful part of BSA. It is the best thing we can offer boys. Many boys will have difficulty finding responsibility in other places.

 

I love the BSA method of slowly building a boy into a leader too. I love watching their confidence grow over the years as the learn that they can be in control. They can actually make some decisions and people will respect those decisions. I love Boy Scouts.

 

That's why I love the topic of JLT and JLTC. It is fundamental to scouting and it really separates us from any other group out there.