United Methodist Church

[LovetoCamp]

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=37761

 

Opinions on what the General Conference is going to produce? Methodist Scouters ought to "Be Prepared".

[OldGreyEagle]

Do Unitarians refuse to charter Boy Scout units or does the BSA choose not to charter units to those congregations?

[packsaddle]

Long ago during one of those tortured threads on BSA and the UUs, I received a private message from a professional scouter assuring me that BSA would charter a Unitarian Universalist troop without hesitation. Of course this would assume that they would agree to abide by BSA regs. While I admit there's a small but finite probability that some UU church could choose to become a CO, I find it difficult to envision circumstances in which a UU church, faithful to their beliefs, could make such a move. It will be interesting to watch the Methodists.

[Rooster7]

Here is the key text in the article mentioned at the start of this thread:

 

The trial in Bothell, Wash., was only a prelude to the big bonfire planned for next month in Pittsburgh, Pa. That's where the United Methodists, America's third-largest church denomination, will hold its annual General Conference and make decisions about its policies on various issues of homosexuality.

 

The jury that voted on this matter represents a very tiny minority of the churchs leadership. They are not the church. They do represent a pocket of liberals within the church (i.e., the Northwest corner of these United States). Before you have a discussion about whether or not Methodists will remain consistent with its teachings and condemn the BSA, wait and see how the General Assembly reacts to this bogus decision. I strongly suspect that the conclusion made by those 13 Methodist pastors (We searched the Discipline and did not find a declaration that 'the practice of homosexuality is incompatible with Christian teachings) will be condemned in the strongest of language.

 

I dont doubt the authors passion or sincerity in this article. However, I think he formulated an opinion about the UMC without having a good understanding of its structure and processes. As I said, lets wait see how the church responds when its entire leadership is participating in the process.

 

[SR540Beaver]

(We searched the Discipline and did not find a declaration that 'the practice of homosexuality is incompatible with Christian teachings)

 

They might want to sit next to a good lamp and put on their reading specs the next time they read their Bible.

[Bob White]

OGE

Its both but what makes it almost funny is the order it happened in.

 

Let's say you were told that you were not invited to a party. So after learning that, you went around saying "I refuse to go to that party".

 

Well refuse to go or not, you weren't getting in anyway.

 

That's what happened with the Unitarian Church. The BSA said they would not be acceptable as Charter Organizations under the present decisions of the Unitarian church to not follow the scouting membership rules. So since they couldn't be COs they went around saying "we refuse to charter Boy Scout units". Whether they refused or not, the BSA was not going to charter them.

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[NJCubScouter]

So, Bob, in other words, your answer to OGE's actual question is that the BSA decided not to allow units to be chartered to UU churches. The "both" is just spin... maybe in part by the UU, but also by U (you.)

[NJCubScouter]

The United Methodist Church has a unique place in the history of the BSA's "gay issue," and specifically in the Dale case. Some religious organizations submitted "friend of the court" briefs supporting Dale's position and some submitted briefs supporting the BSA's position, but the United Methodist Church was the only one in which different bodies within the same organization submitted two briefs, one on each side. So I think it is safe to say that the United Methodist Church is divided on the "gay" issue -- not just the BSA's part of the issue, but the whole issue. (Sort of like the country as a whole.) Where the majority will come out, we shall see, and I am sure someone will post about it when it happens.

 

 

[Bob White]

NJ

No spin just explanation. Read OGE's post again.

 

"Do Unitarians refuse to charter Boy Scout units or does the BSA choose not to charter units to those congregations?

 

The correct answer is both. Each party is saying what OGE asked. I simply pointed out the order in which they were said.

 

The UUA said they would not follow the rules but would continue to charter scout units. The BSA then said "No you won't", so the UUA then changed their approach to one of "OH NO WE WON'T"

 

I wouldn't say they put a spin on it, it is more of a posturing.

 

All I did was give an explanation of the order of events. You take it however you want.

[Fat Old Guy]

" a UU church, faithful to their beliefs"

 

I don't know how that could be possible. I know more than a few Unitarians and from the way that they explain it, you can and may believe whatever you want and be a Unitarian. Also, they make a point of not calling it a "church," my Unitarian acquaintances call their gathering a "fellowship."

 

I just went to the UU website and found that they describe themselves as " We are a "non-creedal" religion: we do not ask anyone to subscribe to a creed." How can a religion exist without a creed?

 

A creed is not just a statement of faith but it also includes a system of beliefs and principles. A religion is a system of beliefs, values and practices based on belief in a supernatural being or the teachings of a spiritual leader. In short, a religion requires a creed.

 

 

[SR540Beaver]

FOG,

 

I've been a Southern Baptist all my life. The Southern Baptists are the largest protestant denomination in the world. We don't have a creed.

[John-in-KC]

At the "big picture" level, we're all just going to have to wait for this one to play itself out.

 

Meanwhile, it seems to me that Scouters in existing UMC chartered units should have a heart-to-heart talk with their COR and IH. They should have it before the next charter cycle following this summers' convention. Additionally, district key 3 may want to hold similar conversations with these fine chartered partners.

 

These conversations will find some parish pastors out there who want to keep Scouting in their parish.

 

There will be other parish pastors ... who may well tell the unit or the DE to find a new chartered partner.

 

At the end of the day, this will happen parish by parish.

[NJCubScouter]

Well, Bob, whichever you slice it in the case of the UUA, it is just more evidence that the BSA's anti-gay policy is inconsistent with its own Declaration of Religious Principles. If the BSA would just decide to comply with that Declaration instead of ignoring the part about being "non-sectarian," it would permit organizations such as the UUA, Reform Jewish congregations, Wiccan churches, some Methodist congregations, some Episcopalian congregations, and some of a number of other denominations, to use the Scouting program to benefit youth in their organizations and communities consistent with their own moral beliefs that discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation is against God's will, just as it could continue to allow those of other religions and denominations to do the same consistent with their own belief that God has declared homosexuality to be immoral. And you don't need to remind me again that the BSA is a "private organization" and has the "right" to do what it is doing. None of that makes it "right."

[NJCubScouter]

SR540Beaver says:

 

The Southern Baptists are the largest protestant denomination in the world. We don't have a creed.

 

I find it difficult to believe that Southern Baptists do not have a "creed" as I understand that term to be used in this thread. That meaning as I understand it is, a set of common beliefs (about God) professed by members of the denomination that distinguishes it from other denominations. Are you saying that the Southern Baptists do not have a set of common beliefs? Every organized religion (and denomination of an organized religion) that I know of has a set of common beliefs, with one exception, and that is the Unitarian Universalists. You can profess to not believe in God, or to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, or that Jesus Christ is not the Son of God, or any of a number of other things, and be accepted as a Unitarian Universalist. That is why they call themselves a "non-creedal religion," and why FOG questions whether it is a religion at all. I agree, it does not really seem like a "religion" to me, either.

 

Which is not to say that many Unitarian Universalists are not religious. Or, eliminating the double negative, many Unitarian Universalists are religious. However, they prefer a "fellowship" in which persons with fundamentally different beliefs are not excluded. I have no problem with that, and coincidentally, my adult daughter, who does have sort of a vague belief in God and Jesus Christ as a result of a Catholic upbringing that didn't quite "stick," was dabbling with the idea of Unitarian Universalism for awhile, and still may. (It happens that the local parish or church or whatever they call themselves is without a building at present, and rents space from her college for their services.)

 

So while a Unitarian Universalist, may be religious, calling the organization as a whole a "religion" does challenge the meaning of the term.

[Bob White]

Youth of the UUA, youth of Wiccan covens, youth of the Episcopalian Church as well as the Methodist church are all welcome to join Scouting, as are the adult members of those same organizations.

 

They will of course be required to follow the policies of the BSA just as any other member. No one is treated differently.

 

The only thing the BSA has said is that those organizations cannot charter a scout unit, because they have said they will break the rules.

 

If over two-hundred-thousand other COs can follow the rules why can't they? And why should they be treated differently.

 

Howl at the moon on this all you want NJ the moon will not fall from the sky to appease you. Get a thousand others to howl with you and still the moon goes on. It is held in place by forces you will not effect. The BSA is no different. Howl on.