Problems with Charter Organization

[Bob White]

Pdunbar,

 

You wrote to me that everything I said about your situation was correct. You even posted that same thing. I have accepted everything you have written about your side as factual. You will excuse me if I am fair enough to assume that everything you say of your adversaries is not unbiased and non-prejudicial.

 

Based on what you have written, the COR did things you didn't like, but not things they aren't authorized to do. The basic problem your unit had was a poor relationship with your CO and your leadership is 50% responsible for that poor condition.

 

Now you may not like that, but that doesn't make it less truthful. Offering you an explanation of some scouting structures you didn't know or understand isn't grounds for arrogance. Do I know a little more about the program than a few other posters, yes I do. And there a few others on this forum who know as much if probably not more than me.

 

Unfortunately for you, none of them are cheering you on either.

 

There are a few posters who enjoy taking personal shots at me, hey, sticks and stones. Most of them are not really unit leaders, or haven't taken the time to learn about the program they "run".

 

Sorry if you don't care for my direct writing style. I don't have time for coddling people who aren't looking for the scouting way but just want to garner support for "their" way.

 

I have been more than happy to give cheerfully service to those trying to do the best scouting program they can. I get over 60 private messages a month from posters who want to avoid some of the vicious rhetoric fired at me by a couple posters, but ask for my assistance in delivering a strong program. Some I have ongoing e-mail and phone support from me. The all seem to welcome my help and I am glad to oblige if it will help them. So I really don't care how a few people want to characterize me.

 

If you just want someone to say its OK to do what you want, then you have found the posters willing to say that. I'm just not one of them.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Twocubdad]

You think you are the victim of "viscious rhetoric" and "personal shots?" Don't like the level of discourse on the forums? You bring it on yourself. Go back and read your last few posts. There are a number of people to whom you owe an apology. You are awfully quick to call my honesty into question because you don't like the way I use quotation marks.

 

I have been a member of this forum for two years now. I have been impressed with your knowledge and dedication to Scouting, but occasionally find your pedantic, lock-step application of BSA policy to lack common sense. As with this thread, your opinions sometimes conflict with black-letter policy we have in front of us. Yet you will go down with the ship before admitting that their may be more than one way to interpret or implement a policy. I have often wondered if anyone can truely be so arrogant and stubborn, or if you have chosen to play the role of the hard-core book thumper for the benefit of the forums.

 

But despite disagreeing with you from time to time, NEVER have I questioned your integrity or honesty.

 

For the record, I did not quote or even implied that your said the CO's "activities are authorized within controlling legal guidelines." It seems fairly clear that was a fictious quote of the fictious "Beltway politician" in the preceed sentence. (And for the politically astute in the crowd, it was a reference to a similar remark from Al Gore about 8 or 10 years ago regarding campaign contributions.) An three posts later, after you asked who said it, I readily admitted that it was my own.

 

I await your apology.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

[Bob White]

"Come on Bob, your post sounds like Beltwayspeak from some politician caught with their hand in the cookie jar. "All activities are authorized within controlling legal guidelines."

 

You admitted it was not my quote only after I called you on it. You chose to put the quote marks on it, you could have chosen to say at the time who you were quoting. Instead you chose not to establish that it was someone else and not me.

 

As you point out I work hard to give accurate information. If I write something wrong, I own up to it.

 

If I ever make something up and attribute it to you, that's when I will need to apologize.

 

Continue to wait.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Fat Old Guy]

TP said, "He's not the only book-thumper . . "

 

However, I am neither pedantic nor arrogant but I do dance well. The big difference between Bobo and FOG is that to Bob White, anything that is published by BSA is the ideal and to question it means that you are disloyal and suspect. I, on the other hand, believe that requirements need to be met but we are free to say that policies, procedures and requirements a bad, stupid or poorly designed.

 

 

[evmori]

There are a few posters who enjoy taking personal shots at me, hey, sticks and stones. Most of them are not really unit leaders, or haven't taken the time to learn about the program they "run".

 

Is this a stick or a stone or both?

 

Is the CO's name on the account? Do they have the authority to sign checks? If the answer to these question is not then the money belongs to the unit not the CO.

 

Mr. White never apologizes because he (in his mind) is never wrong!

 

A Happy Easter to all!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10(This message has been edited by evmori)

[Twocubdad]

Fine,Bob, we'll leave it at that.

 

This has been a very instructive thread. I have learned a much about both the BSA policy and the character of Bob White.

[Bob White]

and I of yours.

[Fat Old Guy]

"Is the CO's name on the account? Do they have the authority to sign checks? If the answer to these question is not then the money belongs to the unit not the CO."

 

Sorry Ed but that's a bad example.

 

A says to B, "I want you pay the paperboy, the pool guy and the lawn guy whilst I'm away on vacation. Here's a grand that should cover it. Any excess, give it back to me when I get back." B, not wanting to leave a thousand dollars sitting around, opens a new checking account with that money. Whose money is it? A can't get to it without B's approval or the help of the courts but is it not his money?

 

Not that I think that the CO should have the money that the Troop has raised. I just think that your example is bad.

[EagleInKY]

We have our CO's name on our checks, it says:

 

Troop 123

ABC Church

 

Some businesses will not allow you to claim tax exemption on purchases without the name of the tax exempt organization on the check. Even our scout shop has stopped accepting them. I used to sometimes use my personal checks or credit card and get reimbursed by the troop. They won't do that any more. It has to be a troop check or unit account.

[evmori]

Yeah you're right. Sorry. What I meant was if the money in the account was raised by the Scouts in the unit it belongs to the unit not the CO.

 

Happy Easter

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[OldGreyEagle]

Ed, I know you and FOG enjoy casting slings and arrows at Bob White, but try to limit your insults to factual matters. On 4/4/04 at 3:48:04 (kinda lyrical, aint it?) Bob White posted

 

"Where I was mistaken was that requirements within the badge could be altered"

 

So, your statement:

 

"Mr. White never apologizes because he (in his mind) is never wrong!"

 

is not accurate as he admitted he was wrong. As you carry out your vendetta against all things Bob White, please do it accurately

 

[Laurie]

pdunbar: "Recently all the members of our troop decided we could not tolerate the actions of our charter rep. He refused to add willing parents to the committtee that was in need of more help. The chartering organization also refused to help. In matter of fact that prohibited one parent from being a merit badge counselor, which thyr

really are not allowed to do. We are in the process of being rechartered with a new sponser. No boys are left with the old sponser. Over the years all money and equipment has been raised by the parents and boys. The old chartering organization is refusing to give us the money and equipment. Any suggestion????!!"

 

Several questions were asked, but they remain unanswered:

 

Bob: "Although you are correct that the Charter Organization cannot deny someone to be a merit BAdge counselor, I have to wonder how they even knew of the person applying?"

 

Ed: "Who's on the checking account?"

 

fotoscout: "It would be nice to know why the CO seems to have turned on your Troop? What caused this situation to develop?"

 

Without answering any of these questions, a response in part is:

 

pdunbar: "Just because by scout rules the CO owns everything, I don't know if in the real world is it legal, considering we were forced to make this move when 2 leaders were going to be banned by the CO."

 

I am not certain why the real world would be different from that described in the CO-unit relationship. Forced? Why? The CO must provide approval for each leader; it it does not, then it acted within its rights, so I'm still not sure why this led to being forced. At this point, I'd have first gone to the CR, then to the UC, then to the DE for advice and assistance. It seems that you simply left and started anew.

 

pdunbar: "Final Conclusions!! First thank you to all of you that sympathize with my problem and have offered me very good suggestions. I wish you part of our troop. I must confess that when I first came here I knew that according to BSA policy I knew where we stood. I just wanted to know some suggestions of dealing with the old CO. Old Bob White is correct in his thoughts and reasoning. Notice, I said he was correct! We had decided to leave our CO even if it meant losing everthing......which isn't true in itself......we are leaving with the most important thing.........all of the fine boys in our troop. Thank you again"

 

Then why not do what you expected to? Move on, even if losing everything? It is a valid concern to ask about the gear and funds, but it seems that you knew you'd you lose the gear and funds, left anyway, and then tried to find a way to get it. I think it's great that you have enthusiasm for Scouting and want to serve the boys, but I am troubled by the responses about the CO and the apparent lack of wanting to work it out with those who just might have been able to help. Sympathy for your situation? Yes, I have some for it personally, but I also am a bit frustrated by the lack of answers to questions asked of you, and then the introduction of other topics: ie homosexuality, merit badge and rank issues. There seems to be far more to this in reading through the rest of the thread.

 

I wish the unit you serve well, and I'm very sorry for the problems the unit you serve has faced, but how they came about remains unanswered--and that might have been the key to avoiding this move. It is a shame that things had to progress this far.

(This message has been edited by Laurie)

[evmori]

OGE,

No vendetta. Just truth. The only reason Mr. White admitted he was wrong is because it could be proved he was without a doubt! When he has been wrong in other instances he just changes the subject!

 

Happy Easter

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

 

 

[MrsSmith]

Please don't take this question the wrong way. This site is very informative and entertaining. (Too much so sometimes, when the phone messages are piling up.) But as a newcomer to scouting with lots of stupid questions piling up, I wondered if there is actually an official BSA forum where official BSA types are authorized to make official statements on behalf of BSA and interpret its official policies? Kind of like an "Ask the BSA expert" site? Or am I there?

[Bob White]

Welcome Mrs. Smith

 

No such web site exists that I know of. fortunately though you have other options. Your local council has professionals who can either direct you to official sources or to volunteers they know who understand and use the official scouting program.

 

A good place to find folks like this is at your districts monthly Roundtable meeting or call your local district professional, Commissioner, or training chair.

 

Of course we do have some knowledgable scouters here, both professional and volunteer, who will be glad to direct you to the offical resources of the BSA that will answer the vast majority of your questions.

 

I hope this helps,

Bob White