Problems with Charter Organization

[pdunbar]

Recently all the members of our troop decided we could not tolerate the actions of our charter rep. He refused to add willing parents to the committtee that was in need of more help. The chartering organization also refused to help. In matter of fact that prohibited one parent from being a merit badge counselor, which thyr really are not allowed to do. We are in the process of being rechartered with a new sponser. No boys are left with the old sponser. Over the years all money and equipment has been raised by the parents and boys. The old chartering organization is refusing to give us the money and equipment. Any suggestion????!!

[Bob White]

Sorry you have problems BUT....

 

Don't leave your employer and expect to take the furniture with you, even if it was your work that allowed him to buy it.

 

The fact is that technically the troop is not getting a new charter. A new charter organization is getting a charter and you are quitting one Troop and joining another.

 

You are the scout program of the Charter Organization and the Charter Rep is the Chief Executive Officer of scouting program for the Charter organization. The CO and COR has the right to accept or deny membership in the unit as they choose. The money and equipment is theirs. If you were the choir and changed churches do you think you would get to take the robes and songbooks with you?

 

You chose to start anew. So you will need to do just that.

 

Although you are correct that the Charter Organization cannot deny someone to be a merit BAdge counselor, I have to wonder how they even knew of the person applying?

 

 

[evmori]

Bob White is correct. Hades is getting cold~ The equipment belongs to the CO. I'm not sure about the money. Who's on the checking account?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[LovetoCamp]

March 2004 - Dissatisfied Scouter Month

[fotoscout]

It would be nice to know why the CO seems to have turned on your Troop? What caused this situation to develop?

 

foto

[firstpusk]

This is a good example of why good communication is critical between the unit and the chartering organization. I have seen situations where the old partner allows the unit to take equipment with them. However, it has always been when there is a mutual agreement that the unit needs to move on, i.e., the space is not adequate for a growing troop.

 

In your situation, the equipment is gone. It was never owned by the boys and the parents. Sometimes, this challenge can be an opportunity to strip scouting down to its essentials. Everyone has a chance to build a new unit with a culture that truly embraces the best that scouting can be - and that is not about the biggest troop trailer stuffed with high buck gear.

[Hunt]

You might try to get the new charter organization to ask the old one to give it the money and equipment--they might be willing to honor such a request if it comes from somebody other than the people with whom they've been having a conflict. However, if they are planning on keeping the old troop going with new people, you can probably forget it.

[dozer]

This may be a dumb question, but why would the CO have the troops money??

Alan

[Bob White]

For the same reason that the money raised by the choir to by robes belongs to the church and not to the choir Director or the individual members of the choir. It belongs to the church.

 

Just because these leaders and scouts are quitting and joining another unit it does not cancel the charter that the CO has with the BSA. They (the CO) can continue THEIR scouting program with other people, using the assets of THEIR scouting program.

 

[Fat Old Guy]

This issue came up locally not to long ago and according to the wonks at the Council office, the CO has no claim to the unit funds. It was explained to us that the CO may redirect those funds to another unit that it charters but it may not absorb them into their treasury. Of course, the pros at the Council office might not know what they are talking about.

 

 

[evmori]

For the same reason that the money raised by the choir to by robes belongs to the church and not to the choir Director or the individual members of the choir. It belongs to the church.

 

Hades is warming up!

 

Unless the church gave the Troop all the funds in the Troop checking account(which is highly unlikely) comparing the church choir to a Scout Troop is absurd! The church bought the choir robes. The Scouts raised the money for the Troop. The money belongs to the Troop not the church!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Proud Eagle]

This is both a legal and an ethical issue.

 

Legally, Scout units (in the USA) are normally part of the charter organization rather than a seperate entity. (There are of coarse places this may not be the case.)

 

That would support the idea that anything that belongs to the unit actually belongs to the charter organization.

 

However, any funds raised by the unit were expected by those paying for goods and services (or donating equipment and supplies) to be used for the original intended purpose. People bought tickets to the pancake breakfast both to get a good meal and to support Scouting. They did not intend for the church to kick the Scouts to the curb and then use the money they paid for the tickets to be used to buy new vestments for the minister.

 

So it would seem the ethical thing would be for the charter organization to find a way to make certain the money and equipment continue to be used for the good of Scouting. This could mean they reorganize their own unit. It could mean they give the stuff to another unit to use. It could mean they loan out equipment temporarily with the understanding it remains theirs and may in the future be used be a Scout unit of their own.

 

 

[EagleInKY]

We "moved" COs 18 months ago. The previous CO just didn't care about Cub Scouting any more. Different leadership in the church over the years, an aging membership, etc. The relationship eroded to the point that it just wasn't a good fit. Meanwhile, across town there was a new, vibrant, youth-oriented church that was interested in starting a pack. We knew it did not make sense to have two units in our small town. So, with the DE, we approached the CO about relinquishing the charter when it came up for renewal, and allow the other church to charter us and pick up from there. This included transfering all of the money and equipment. The CO agreed, and we're all happy about how it turned out.

 

I was concerned about the money and equipment, but my DE said not to worry. She said that the church could keep it, but they would have to hold it until such a time that they had another Cub Scout unit. Since the church had no interest in doing that, there really wasn't an issue of them wanting to keep the money and gear.

 

I don't know if she was correct, but all worked out well in our case.

[Bob White]

She was close. the BSA would strongly request that the money be used for the benefit of a youth program if not a scouting program. BUT, the money is legally the church's.

 

The troop is not a legal entity. Something that several scouters seem to have a problem comprehending. It cannot sign contracts, hold title or license, or represent either the BSA or the Charter Organization in a legal agreement. Although many units due these things or allow others to treat them as a legal entity, the fact is they are not.

 

The Unit is not a charitable organization. It is a youth activity of the charter organization.

 

When Proud Eagle wrote that the unit is normally a part of the charter organization, that was incorrect. A unit is always a part of a CO . The Charter Orgainization is a required entity. Scout units must achieve membership through a charter orginization in compliance with our congressional charter.

[evmori]

If the CO had nothing to do with raising the funds in the Troop account then it doesn't belong to them. And by keeping it constitutes theft.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10