Should A Dead Beat Dad be a Unit Leader?

[matuawarrior]

I think this is the correct place for this topic.

 

We have a dilemma here. We started a new unit a couple of weeks ago. One of the leader "candidates" bragged to a teen member that he has a child from a previous relationship and does not pay any child support. A Jr. Leader, who was present during the conversation, reported it to me and several committee members.

 

Last Friday, It was confirmed by the charter contacts that this person has a child and has not paid child support for the last 3-1/2 years.

 

The Chartered Organization was told about it. Our charter rep has decided she will not sign the application because this individual sets a bad example to the youth members.

 

Is the Charter in the right for doing this?

 

I'm siding with the Charter as the IH.

 

Matua

[Fat Old Guy]

I would say that further investigation is required before making a decision. Find out why this fellow hasn't paid child support in 3.5 years.

 

 

[acco40]

No offense matua, but I think your thoughts are irrelevant. It is entirely the COs call. Unless matters such as a criminal record (and not paying child support is criminal here in the state of Michigan) are involved and the national council gets involved the leader decisions are up to the chartering organization and not anyone at the local council.

 

P.S. I say this without any knowledge or experience with these matters!(This message has been edited by acco40)

[evmori]

I agree he is not a good role model. Acco40 is correct. It is the call of the CO but the CO needs to have all the facts before making a decision.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[NWScouter]

You will note, "I'm siding with the Charter as the IH." If I'm reading it right, matua is the Institutional Head of the CO. So he would have ultimate responsibility as he has delegated to the Charter Rep. To sign the applications but he still can sign them too.

 

The other thing irregardless of why the leader is behind on his support, to brag about it shows a lack of judgment that is maybe reason enough for the CO not to approve.

[Bob White]

This is a decision of the IH and COR to make. They can refuse to accept an application for any reason they choose as long as it does not conflict with the standards and values of the BSA. The question they need to ask themselves is if the adult doesnt act responsibly with his own children why should we expect him to act responsibly with other peoples children?.

[NJCubScouter]

Before anybody (including the CO in this case) could come to a reasonable conclusion about whether this person would be a "good example," it sounds to me like a couple things need to be clarified. One is the circumstances behind the person's failure to pay child support, and the other is, what he has said about it to people within the unit (particularly youths.) It may be that what he has done is perfectly legal and sanctioned by court orders, for whatever reason. Or it may not be. I don't think enough information has been presented for us to do more than guess. I do agree with NW that even if the non-payment was "legitimate," if he was "bragging" about it, that presents a problem in and of itself. In other words, he may be bragging about how he "gets away with it," which also is not a good role model for the youth. However, it sounds like the way Matua knows the applicant said this is that a junior leader heard a conversation between this person and another youth member and reported it to Matua and others. At best, it is second-hand, and I'd wonder if the junior leader heard the entire converation, which if not, would make it partly third-hand. I am not suggesting the junior leader is incorrect in his reporting; but I have seen enough errors even with adults conveying information to suggest that caution would be in order before taking any action based on a second- or third-hand report of "bragging."

[fboisseau]

NJCubScouter,

I disagree. In my opinion there is only one reason a father or mother should not pay child support to the other, and that is that the recipient is using the money to satisfy their own desires and neglecting the children. In that case he/she should spend every dime helping the children and getting custody of those same children. When you are party to bringing a child into this world you are responsible for taking care of that child, no matter how the other party acts towards you. A parent who hides behind court ruling to get out of that responsibilities is not morally straight and should be not be a leader until they see the error of their ways.

 

To be moral is to always do the right thing no matter how hard and the right thing is rarely the easy thing.

 

[RobK]

Get the story first hand from the man in question. All you have now is second hand reports about what's happening. You don't know why he hasn't paid child support and you don't know for sure that he was "bragging" per se vs. simply relating the facts of the matter.

 

I have a child from a previous marriage and I haven't ever paid child support... because I have my daughter 3 days a week, I provide her clothes, her health insurance, and her groceries, and I'm paying off the credit card bills that my ex-wife ran up. It was as much my ex's idea as it was mine. Further, we all get along great!

 

Don't jump to conclusions about this guy. I agree that it's likely he's doing the wrong thing, but get the story straight from him because you don't know first hand!

 

 

[NJCubScouter]

Fboisseau, I think our disagreement is probably a small one. I recognize that the odds are that the conclusion that you and others have reached is a correct one. I am just saying that if the decision were mine to make, I would want more facts. I would not want to base a decision on my own inability to come up with possible explanation that would be acceptable. I'd want to hear the explanation first and then decide whether it overcame my initial reaction -- not to start ruling out potential explanations in advance.

[fotoscout]

Whatever went on here, it is nobodys business except the potential ASM, IH and COR. The ASM certainly displayed an error in judgment by talking about this, but it shouldnt be his death sentence without a proper review of the circumstances.

 

Give the man his day in court; he should have a private conversation with the IH, and COR, that conversation should also include something about appropriate discussions within earshot of the kids.

 

[NJCubScouter]

I should also point out that the use of the phrase "Dead Beat Dad" in the title of this thread probably helped set the discussion off in an inevitable direction. I am not faulting Matua for this, as that is the conclusion he drew from the facts in his possession. But that phrase does imply that a legal requirement has not been satisfied. I can't help regarding that factor as being potentially relevant -- meaning, that if he is defying the law, that would pretty much wrap up his chances at being a leader if I were the CO. If he is obeying the law, that wouldn't necessarily resolve the problem, it would depend on the other facts.

[Fat Old Guy]

Facts. Get all the facts.

 

A friend of a friend is a mechanic who paid his wife's way through college and med school. In a classic case, except the sexes are reversed, after the wife's practice started rolling she decided that her husband who had grease on his hands wasn't an appropriate escort and couldn't mingle with the country club crowd. She dumped him for someone else. He didn't take his lawyer's advice so he didn't go after part of her income and got hammered for child support that if he paid it would leave him living in a one room flat. She makes about $500,000 and her new husband makes a similar amount a year so the kids aren't suffering.

 

Do I fault the guy? Not really, the three grand that he is supposed to pay every month really is pocket money to the ex and her hubby. Are the kids going to go shoeless? Are they missing out on college? No and nope.

 

Stories like this are why you need to get the facts first.

 

 

[matuawarrior]

We are having a meeting tonight with the potential applicant to find out if the allegations are true.

 

 

Matua

[scoutmom]

I agree that every effort should be made to get the facts. There may be circumstances that are not apparent on the surface which would result in this father not having a child support obligation.

 

HOWEVER, Fat Old Guy, the fact that your "friend's friend" has an ex-spouse who has remarried and both are financially well off does not excuse someone from paying child support. He helped bring those children into this world and he has an obligation to them, not his ex. I wish people would realize ( yes, I said people, not men, because there are "dead-beat moms" out there too) that child support is exactly that - for the support of their child.

 

Sorry, this is a sensitive subject for me. I haven't seen a support check in six of the seven years I have been divorced. And believe me it could be put to good use, not only for camping trips, summer camp and other Scouting stuff, but for clothes, shoes, food. You know, the luxuries.