Baiting

[evmori]

"I can not answer this definitively since I choose not to see his posts, but if it turned out to be true I would not be surprised."

Bob White posted this in aanother thread! I know he won't see this post since he chose to block my posts. But talk about the pot calling the kettle black! I distinctly remember being baited - as were all other posters - by Mr. White.

How does everyone feel about being baited?

Is Fat Old Guy baiting us?

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10(This message has been edited by evmori)

[Laurie]

There seems to be plenty of baiting taking place these days As to who does it--I haven't paid much attention to who puts out the bait--I simply try to avoid taking the bait. To answer the question, "How does everyone feel about being baited?", I prefer being able to ask a question or ask for opinions directly as it makes for more productive discussions in my opinion. It would be nice to think others are asking sincere questions too, and that is how I tend to approach most posts.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

[Fat Old Guy]

Sure I'm baiting you all. I'm dangling bait to make you think.

[NJCubScouter]

Baiting? In my profession we call that "cross-examination."

 

I think a certain amount of "baiting" goes on in this forum, particularly in Issues and Politics but not always, and up to a point it is just part of the give-and-take of discussion and debate. (Or to put it another way, the first line of this post is only partly a joke.) I have been "accused" of "baiting" a couple of times myself, and have had it done to me, though of course in my opinion I never rose to the bait. What I mean specifically is that if a person has made a statement that I disagree with, and I believe that the statement is inconsistent with something else the person believes, I have on occasion asked a question to find out for certain (and have everybody else find out for certain) whether the person does indeed believe that inconsistent thing. Or if I suspect that a person's opinion is based in a larger belief system that if fully aired, will defeat the person's argument in the minds of readers, I have occasionally asked questions to draw out that larger belief system. As I say, it has been done to me also. I don't think there's anything wrong with it, as long as there is no deception involved. Usually, a question is simply a question. But when that statement is accompanied by a factual scenario that is misleading, or becomes misleading through further questions and answers, that is where I think "the line" can be crossed. And Ed, the prime example that I can think of is the one that you are undoubtedly referring to in your post.

[Laurie]

Well said NJ. I automatically thought of deception when thinking of the word bait. I'm with you on this issue; you express yourself well and in the way I only wish I could

[Eamonn]

It might be that my command of the English language isn't that good? I had to think for a while what "Baiting" means.

Yes I have used baiting to draw a answer out of some of the people who post in these forums. In fact I miss the Man Of Steele. I knew that at times when I got on my high horse about something that was happening in our Council, he would post a reply.

There are times when I see something posted which I in my infinite wisdom?? Deem to be as dumb as dumb can be. I suppose I could be blunt and say "That is dumb!!" But either I'm too polite or not honest enough. Instead I use the pointed question.

I at times feel that Fat Old Guy is baiting all of us. My problem is that at times he is right. I really hate to admit it!!

Bob is a wonderful resource. At times he comes across as being a little short. But I happen to believe that he has a good handle on this program and does really care about Scouting and the youth in the programs.

I have squelched Wheeler, as I find no worth what so ever in his postings along with the fact that he has posted that I am a hypocrite !! There is no point in me trying to bait him or have anything to do with him as he really has nothing to do with Scouting and the programs. - So why bother? But having said that I remember posting something about the World Jamboree being a gathering of "Pinkos" So I have to plead guilty to being a baiter.

Eamonn

 

[Fuzzy Bear]

Socrates baited or questioned a person for the very reason that NJC does. He wanted to expose a false idea or to define a belief system based on the merits. Questioning can have worth if used well and for a purpose.

 

It can also be misused in a hurtful manner to expose a person's ignorance in public. It can be used to mislead a person into exposing sensitive areas in their life or simply to set one up for ridicule.

 

Since this is a Scout forum, I want to believe that we would observe the ideals of Scouting instead of attempting to hammer an individual into submission with trickery.

 

I accept the fact that people sit behind their computer screens and act as if the ideals and individuals are at a distance and it is unnecessary to feel compelled to use any restraint or decorum.

 

Since that is the case, it is best to carefully consider where one sits around this campfire. Consider the facts and share as one feels lead. Hopefully, everyone will benefit from being here in spite of our transgressions.

 

FB

 

[evmori]

Actually I meant baiting in a negative way.

[mk9750]

Ed,

 

I should not be attempting to speak for Bob, but if you're right, he won't speak for himself. But when I read the other thread, I made the assumtion it was FOG he had squelched, not you.

 

Maybe Bob can confirm this one way or another.

 

As to baiting, sure it happens. It is a valuable form of discussion, used most often, as NJ explained, in the judicial system, not only at trial, but in depositions and even in interrogations. It can be malicious, and we've seen evidence of that here occasionally. But in most cases, it is not. It's a tried and true method of getting your fellow conversationalist to make your point for you.

 

Again, let me say I should not speak for Bob, but although it is obvious he does not respect many of your positions concerning Scouting, I think he has shown evidence tht he actually likes you as a person (as much as talking over the internet can allow). I've read people and what they've written wrong before, but this is how I have read Bob's posts concerning you.

 

Now FOG is a different matter. Although I think FOG has become much more mainstream than when he first started posting, I get the feeling Bob is never going to like FOG.

 

Mark

[Bob White]

I'm not sure what has prompted this thread, or the use of my name in it, and quite honestly I am not curious enough to un-squelch the originator of the thread to find out.

 

Going by what others have written I will say this. It is difficult to be conversational on a forum such as this, or to give quality responses to what others post, without sometimes having to ask questions. Often these questions are just to clarify, other times they are to create a train of logic to explain or enhance a point. Either way it is a style of posting which I and several others have used often. I see it as conversation not as baiting. I think it enhances the quality and the clarity of many of the threads.

 

Baiting to me would be to introduce another posters name into a thread in a negative manner in order to try and force them to respond or react defensively. I have not done it, and will no longer respond to it, and will continue to squelch posters who continue to practice such methods.

 

Bob White

 

[Fuzzy Bear]

So, he took the bait without direct questioning. It was just the use of his name in the form of an investigative approach that drew him in to the thread.

 

The whole time he was saying that he would not be the subject of it nor engage in it, yet he did.

 

How interesting.

 

Questioning is a form of an indirect statement, not conversation.

 

FB

 

[Fat Old Guy]

Mk.... said, "I should not be attempting to speak for Bob, but if you're right, he won't speak for himself. But when I read the other thread, I made the assumtion it was FOG he had squelched, not you."

 

He's squelched me, Ed, and he claims to have zapped Wheeler as well. However, we all know what Bob's word is worth.

 

"Although I think FOG has become much more mainstream"

 

Mainstream? Good Golly (edited to avoid offending the devout), I hope that never happens. I hope that I never accept anything without questioning just because it is handed down from on high (unlike someone else, who will remain nameless but whose initials are Bob White).

 

"than when he first started posting, I get the feeling Bob is never going to like FOG."

 

That's because I've called him a pedantic book-thumper and he knows that I'm right. Of course, he'll never "read" this so he can't respond. LOL!

 

Bobo said, "Baiting to me would be to introduce another posters name into a thread in a negative manner in order to try and force them to respond or react defensively. I have not done it . . ."

 

Har! (of course, Bobo won't see my derisive laughter).

[Bob White]

"Questioning is a form of an indirect statement, not conversation."

 

What makes you think that Fuzzy? The Merriam-Webster dictionary does not agree. It offers this definition.

1 a (1) : an interrogative expression often used to test knowledge (2) : an interrogative sentence or clause b : a subject or aspect in dispute or open for discussion : ISSUE; broadly : PROBLEM, MATTER c (1) : a subject or point of debate or a proposition to be voted on in a meeting (2) : the bringing of such to a vote d : the specific point at issue

2 a : an act or instance of asking :

 

I think the areas I have bolded are examples of how many posters have used questions on this board. To bring in a posters name in a thread he has not participated in in order to draw them in is quite different.

 

Again the dictionary is quite clear.

1 a : to persecute or exasperate with unjust, malicious, or persistent attacks b : TEASE

2 a : to harass (as a chained animal) with dogs usually for sport b : to attack by biting and tearing

3 a : to furnish with bait b : ENTICE, LURE

4 : to give food and drink to (an animal) especially on the road

intransitive senses, archaic : to stop for food and rest when traveling

 

What do you think was the intent of this thread?

[mk9750]

It appears I owe apologies to both Ed, Bob, and FOG.

 

First to Ed: I guess I was wrong. I had not seen a post that said anyone squelched you. So I assumed no one had. Bad assumption, and one I should not have made public. Sorry to have said anything.

 

Second to Bob: I'm sorry if you thought I was baiting you. It absolutely was not why I mentioned your name. As I said above, I thought I understood your position concerning Ed, and thought I could clarify it. I should NEVER have done this (I guess I knew I shouldn't do it all along. Heck, I was apologizing for it while I was writing it!). I tried to play mediator between two people I like on this forum. I think I understand what you feel about Ed's philosophies on Scouting. But I had never seen any maliciousness from you toward Ed personally, and I was trying to point that out to him.

 

And to FOG: I don't think saying you've become more mainstream is derrogatory. I don't think that it means that you "accept anything without questioning just because it is handed down from on high". I think you're posts have taken a turn away from attacking people personally to discussing issues. As I've said before, I still don't always agree with you. But your tone allows me to decide the merits of your position without having to filter it through your demeanor. If you felt calling you more mainstream was an insult, I am sorry. I thought it a compliment.

 

Mea Culpa.

 

Mark

[Fat Old Guy]

Mk..., I didn't find being called "mainstream" insulting, just interesting. As for attacks on others, I believe the main focus of my negative comments has been Bobo Blanco and I don't know if that will ever change. It won't change as long as he espouses ignoring the Guide to Safe Scouting while continuing to claim that the "powers that be" know what's best for Scouting and that to question their decisions is to be a bad Scouter.