Bradwell v Illinois

[evmori]

"Igor Shafarevich"

 

Isn't this the guy who built the apartment building in Ghostbusters?

[OldGreyEagle]

Try to keep up Ed, that was Ivo Shandor whats the matter is all this Greek to you ?

 

(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[NJCubScouter]

Ah, yet another "opportunity" to admit my terrifying grasp of completely useless information, including about movies I've seen too many times:

 

In "Ghostbusters," the name of the early-20th century architect who designed Dana Barrett's apartment building, as a hidden temple to the Sumerian god Gozer, is:

 

Ivo Shandor. (First name pronounced Evo, as I recall.)

 

Which, interestingly, shares some letters or sounds with both "Egon Spengler" (the Ghostbuster played by Harold Ramis) and "Igor Shafarevich," whoever he is, or isn't. I will leave for others to speculate whether all three names are fictional characters -- and if not, which ones.

 

Just remember, don't cross the streams...

[NJCubScouter]

Hey now OGE, I answered that post before you edited it.

[OldGreyEagle]

Ok, I had Egon Spengler down, then realized it was Ivo and changed it, but before NJ posted his, I guess you will just have to accept I did it before I read NJ's post

[Rooster7]

Ed,

 

"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner."

1 Timothy 2:11-14

 

I have had a few discussions with my pastor and friends on these verses. Usually most of us conclude that Timothy was stressing spiritual authority or headship. That is to say, in the circle of churches that I know, we believe it is okay for a woman to provide leadership in some areas of the church, but not ones that involve spiritual headship over a man. Obviously there are many other churches on the spectrum some that will not allow women to even speak in a worship service...and some others that completely ignore the verses (discounting it as a antiquated cultural teaching).

 

If you know me, then you know that I dont believe in discounting any of God's Word only interpreting them through other verses and teachings of the Bible. It seems to me that God encourages women to take a role in the church. But it is also clear to me that God wants men take the leadership role in the church.

 

[WHEELER]

Rooster.

This woman was denied by every court on the way up. Every jursist said she could not be a lawyer. Righteousness is about staying within one's boundaries. Not to exceed them. Being a lawyer, policeman, soldier, are all "manly functions". These jurists are expressing the Christian culture. 

This decision preserves Christian culture.  Unadalterated from socialist influence.  Feminism is unrighteousness.  It tells a woman to covet and to usurp the authority and leadership of men.  Adam was led by his wife Eve.  Look at where that led us.

This has nothing to do with "spiritual headship". It has everything to do with the whole of life.

 

Effeminated (definition from the Oxford English Dictionary, 20 Volume set)

a.  Rendered womanish or unmanly.

b. Reduced to the employments of a woman.

c. Degraded by subjection to a woman.

The definitions then are provided evidence in literature.  First  is the year of evidence for the meaninings.  Second, the author's name.  Title of Book.  Sentence were it occured. I have tried to reproduce as close as possible to the dictionary's text.

1611 SPEED Hist. Gt. Brit. ix.iii @38.His chiefest Consorts were Effeminated persons, Ruffians and the like.

1619 H. HUTTON Follie's Anat. 24  See Omphale, her effeminated king Basely captive, make him doe any thing.

1726 DE FOE Hist. Devil I iv. The effeminated Male Apple eater [Adam}

It is nice to see the history of one part of this word.  It shows how we have been deceived in this country to accept leadership of women over us.  The BSA has accepted women to be scoutmasters.  This one part of the definition has shown that we are sorely deceived.  This is the core of Feminism, to effeminize males. 

[firstpusk]

"It shows how we have been deceived in this country to accept leadership of women over us. The BSA has accepted women to be scoutmasters. This one part of the definition has shown that we are sorely deceived. This is the core of Feminism, to effeminize males."

 

I've worked with many capable women who are Scoutmasters. They do a great job and I am proud to have trained a number of them. You aren't even in their league. I wouldn't have you as a leader in a troop.

[WHEELER]

Sirach 14.20 "The multitude is easily decieved."

 

Sirach 13.8 "Beware that thou be not decieved."

 

In Deut 22.5 "The apparel of a man shall not be on a woman, neither shall a man put on a women's dress; for everyone that does these things is an adomination to the Lord thy God".

 

"Putting on the apparel of a man". What is the policeman's uniform? What is a soldier's uniform? What is the Boy Scout uniform? The apparel of a man.

 

Just like it is forbidden to "wear" it is also forbidden to do the job of a man. Women are forbidden to do the job of men. There are exceptions to the rule like Debra, a judge in the OT, and Joan of Arc. In the case of Joan of Arc the men were cowardly before the English and therefore effeminate, God raised up a woman to shame them. I would suppose the same occured in the time of Debra.

 

To FirstPusk, I take it you are a Christian. If you are, you are doing the work of the devil. Do you obey God or do you obey men?

[evmori]

OGE & NJ,

Thanks for clearing that up! I thought we were starting a discussion on 20th century nut cases!

 

Rooster7,

I love you eloquence in explaining things biblical! You shoulda been a pastor. That's exactly what I was looking for. Thanks

 

Wheeler,

You posted

"To FirstPusk, I take it you are a Christian. If you are, you are doing the work of the devil."

 

What is you basis for this? Actually, whatever it you basis, it's completely out of line! If I were you I would stay on my medication all the time!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[firstpusk]

"To FirstPusk, I take it you are a Christian. If you are, you are doing the work of the devil. Do you obey God or do you obey men?"

 

Well thank you. I would much rather be criticized by you than find favor by agreeing with a fool. I take it as a badge of honor. You criticize what you don't understand. You have contributed nothing of value to the scouting movement and have little if anything to offer.

 

I do the work of the devil by telling you the truth. These women do a superb job. You are a bitter man that could not match their achievements. Instead of making specious accusations, look to your own foolish ways and repent. May the peace of Christ be with you.

 

[Laurie]

To my fellow Scouters: my guess would be that the male leaders aren't wearing an "Official BSA Ladies Blouse". I do with a very pretty official BSA ladies scarf that no man I know would dare to tie in the way I do! And I've yet to see a male leader in a skirt. Am I missing something??

 

To Wheeler: your point seems to be that you simply believe women should not serve in the BSA. However, they do, and though I agree that women can be harmful to boys' development, I also know of men who also are harmful to boys' development. What you have made clear is that you will not take BSA training; therefore, you don't know that training is provided to equip men AND women to carry out the role of the BSA, which I'll not debate again as it has been discussed at length and is becoming redundant.

 

To Rooster and Ed: this is the understanding through years of teaching received in various churches that I have of a woman's role in the church as well. It is why I, as a woman, will teach only the young children or other women and not mixed groups in church and in bible studies.

 

To Wheeler: The BSA encourages one to be reverent and requires that all members have some sort of belief in God. For that reason--that it is belief, not a defined belief--I do not quote scripture in any Scout meetings. On the forums I refrain from doing so as well, though your use of scripture leads me to address this one final time. I once took verses that you listed to "prove" some point and put them into context. Not with my words, but with the text coming before and after those verses. Now you've even claimed that someone is doing the work of the devil. In all your talk of manliness and of how you are following God, I don't see anything remotely gentle or kind; in none of your posts do you express a desire to learn or to understand others. I said this would be final time addressing this; the following scripture is why it will be my final post to you. Since you have posted that you are a born-again child of God, I feel I must share this and hope it will benefit you. However, what you do with this passage--or any other--is ultimately between you and God. I too wish you peace.

 

Titus 3:9-13 reads: "But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless. Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned."

 

Because that particular versus starts with the word "but", here is what preceeds it: "Remind them to be subject to rulers and authorities, to obey, to be ready for every good work, to speak evil of no one, to be peacable, gentle, showing all humility to all men. For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another. But when the kindness and love of God of our Savior toward men appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done but according to His mercy, He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable to men. But avoid foolish disputes..." Titus 3:1 to the beginning of verse 9(This message has been edited by Laurie)

[WHEELER]

Laurie do not know church history? How about the Arian heresy? What about the Gnostic heresy? Did the orthodox believers stand around and do nothing or did they contend for truth? We are to contend for the truth. The iconoclastic controversy in the Eastern Christianity lasted over 200 years.

 

It says, "just as it has taught you abide in him". 1 John 2.27

"Maintain the traditions that I delivered to you" I Cor 11.2

 

I maintain the traditions and the teachings uncorrupted. It is others that are not obedient. What did St. Vincent Lerins say, "What has been believed by all, from the beginning." Feminism is not a Christian teaching from the beginning. Sorry. For those of you who are Christians, if you promote feminism you are promoting heresy.

 

James 5.19 "If anyone among you wanders from the truth" you are to bring him back.

 

The consistency is the criterian of truth.