Boy Scouts Charter

[OldGreyEagle]

Never thought of Palios Xristos (Old Christ)as a colloquialism, but perhaps it is. Around here, (Eastern PA/Western NJ) saying Palios Xristos will earn you a smack across the face from your NaNouna as its regarded much as hissing out a low toned "Jesus Christ" when exasperated. Funny how the same words have different meanings, wonder what else we can extend this to?

[Bob White]

If you would scroll up the thread You will see where I posted to why the Federal Charter was written.

 

I am a Doric Greek, our character is to be honest and straightforward. I do not beat around the bush.

 

Wheeler here is something you might find hard to swallow. YOU ARE WRONG!

And I dont care if you are from Puff Bluff, Arkansas.You are still WRONG!

(My apologies to any Puff Bluffians reading this post.)

 

There were three scouting programs with Federal Charters in 1910. Two of them owned by publishers looking to capitalize on Baden-Powells #1 selling book in Europe, Scouting for Boys. One was W.D. Boyce from Chicago, the other William Randolph Hearst who founded the American Boy scouts (ABS). Boyce sued Hearst and the case was finally decided in 1916 in favor of Boyce who had Baden-Powells support. Hearst by this time had withdrawn his support of the ABS (due to poor book sales) and congress re-wrote the Charter. In effect the charter gives the BSA a federally approved monopoly on the term Boy Scout, as well as total control of the images and advancement program of the BSA, and at the same time nullifying the charters of the other two scouting organizations. So the Charter establishes legal ownership and proprietary rights.

 

The Congressional Charter is not the tool that establishes aims, methods, and mission. The Mission of the BSA is not to make men out of boys, even if you say it is. The mission when last I checked is established by the executive committee of the BSA and not by decree of the Doric Greeks?

 

The BSA says its mission is to prepare young people to make ethical choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.

 

So Wheeler, you might know Plato, and you might know Socrates, but when it comes to the Boy Scouts of America..You Dont Know Jack.

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[WHEELER]

When two Greek words have the same ending like Palios Xristos the verb "is" is assumed.

 

Palios is the subject and Xristos is the predicate. Palios is not an adjective of Xristos. It is not Old Christ. It is "The Old is Golden".

 

To Bob White:

 

We have just witnessed how judges are making law left and right. They do want ever they want to do irregardless of the original law.

 

I have seen the executive committee of a college do things against its own constitution of the school.

 

Executive committees don't mean didley when it comes to truth. You can not explain away those comments in the l948 Boys Handbook and the 1962 Scoutmasters manual. The executive committee is failing its job as trustees. Liberals do what ever they want.

They have no respect for anything.

[OldGreyEagle]

Sorry, my Greek tells me xrysos means gold and Xristos means Christ. Xry means gold as in St. John Chrysostom (the golden mouth, writer of the Greek Orthodox Liturgy) BTW xrysos (gold) has no t, Xristos, refering to Christ, has a T

 

I think a Turk taught you Greek(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[Bob White]

Quick nurse this man needs to be sedated stat.

 

Well wheeler now you have done it. Not only do you have no idea what you are talking about, now I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

We have now seen judges changing the law because?????? they decided which organization had the rights to Baden-Powell's term Boy Scouts?

 

The National Executive Committee are LIBERALS? What do you think this is, auditions for comedy night?

 

Face it Wheeler you had no idea about any of that. How can you debate the charter when you had no idea of its purpose. It's good you can quote others, cause as a thinker you got nothin'.

 

[WHEELER]

To OGE: Find yourself a Greek English New Testament and look up Luke 5:39.

 

"O palaios xristos estin". I've shortened it to "Palios Christos" maybe I shouldn't have done that. Any way there is the full Greek. They have 'the old is good'. It could read, "The Old is Golden".

 

To Bob White:

 

Three? posts up you justified everything you said because it was "ESTABLISHED BY THE EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE." I was responding to this quote of yours. You think just because the "EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE" spoke, it is written in stone. Because the "EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE" says this, we do this. If it says the BSA program does not make men, it doesn't. If the EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE says values then it is values and not virtues. Is the EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE God?

 

It says in Scripture:

 

Psalm 146.3 "Put not your trust in Princes" What are princes here refering to? The government. The executive committee are princes.

 

Psalm 118.8-9 "It is better to trust in the Lord than to trust in man. (9) It is better to hope in the Lord, than to hope in princes."

 

Isa 1.23 "Thy princes are rebellious, compannion of theives, loving bribes, seeking after rewards."

 

Hosea 9.15 "All their princes are disobedient".

 

Jesus was killed by the Jewish leaders of his time. Socrates was killed by the demos. Cicero was killed by the Emperor Octavian. All were killed by government.

 

St. Athanasius was dethroned three times from his bishopric by his Arian superiors. He is a saint, his enemies are not.

 

St. Maximos the Confessor was jailed and beaten and exiled many times by his government. He was right though and his government wrong. He's a saint and his enemies?

 

St. Thomas A Beckett was killed by his government.

 

"Put not your trust in princes." The EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE is not God. Government errs all the time. Abortion was illegal in 49 states of the Union. Judges overruled all. Sodomy has been a crime for all eternity and in all the history of the United States. Now, Judges said sodomy is not wrong. Whom to believe? Government or Truth?

 

Princes have always been the biggest betrayers.

[WHEELER]

This is taken from the book, "The Church Impotent", by Leon Podles. He is a Roman Catholic with six sons.  His sons are in Scouting and he is an Assistant Scoutmaster.

 "In almost all societies, learning to be masculine also means being initiated into the religion of that society, since religion teaches the meaning of the mysteries of the life and death. The holy is a masculine category: men develop their masculine identity by a pattern of seperation, both biological and cultural, and to be holy means to be seperated. The more transcendent God is, the holier he is and the more masculine he is." pg 197

 

 "Learning to be masculine". Wow. How can men develop their masculine identity when mixed and lead by women?????? Impossible.. The EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE of the BSA doesn't have a clue what it means to "be a Man".

 

Look Bob White, here is an Assistant Scoutmaster with his own boys in the Boy Scouts.  Great.  Why don't you attack him now!!!! 

 

Let me remind you all the Truth and Knowledge are the BASIS of GOOD SCOUT CITIZENSHIP.  WOW.  Tell me where is Truth and Knowledge exhibited by any here dealing with manhood, manliness masculinity and V-I-Rtue?

[NJCubScouter]

BobWhite says:

 

The National Executive Committee are LIBERALS? What do you think this is, auditions for comedy night?

 

Well, it's nice that I can agree with BobWhite on something in the Issues and Politics forum.

 

I think this whole thing with Wheeler (to whom this is not a response) illustrates the difference between having a conversation with someone who is elsewhere on the political spectrum (like, for example, me and BobWhite, or even me and Rooster) and trying to have a conversation with someone who isn't even on the same spectrum.

[OldGreyEagle]

Words, as I have heard, have meaning, xry is the root for gold, Xri is the root for Christ. If you continue to insist you are correct, thats fine, your posts have plenty of historical and spelling errors to make one doubt if anything you say is true

[Fat Old Guy]

"xry is the root for gold, Xri is the root for Christ."

 

I'm not a Greek scholar but the last time that I checked, the Greeks didn't use the Latin alphabet. What are the different Greek spellings?

 

 

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Good call FOG,

 

gold = χρυσός

 

Christ = Χριστός

[OldGreyEagle]

 

"Princes have always been the biggest betrayers."

 

so what is the answer? Society without goverment? Wheeler you are an Anarchist!

 

BTW, unless I misunderstand things, the court system does not determine good and evil, the legal system is not about values, it determies lawful and unlawful.

 

You can argue whether or not abortion is right or wrong, but the courts only say it is legal. Sodomy may be wrong, but it has been judged not to be unlawful. A war may be considered "legal" but the Society of Friends (Quakers) and Moravians will say all war is wrong. When we expect our goverment to establish what is right and wrong, as opposed to what is lawful and unlawful then we are in trouible.

[WHEELER]

I stand corrected I was wrong about the part being "golden". The point is "The Old is Good." Whereas many on this website want to trash the Old because they are dead-white-men. Jesus confirms the Old as Good. Liberals and socialists, being the progressives that they are, hate the Old. They destroy the old in order to build the new.

I am not an Anarchist. I just don't practice the Roman Mentality of "Total Obedience to authority". Look up the post to "Socrates: Culture defines Politics" where I point out HISTORICAL situation where Alexander the Great commanded all to kneel to him. The Persians knelt and the Greeks remained standing.  Where they anarchists also? I follow the dictum and principles of the Spartans--"Total Obedience to God and conditional obedience to men". When men are lawful, obedience is given. When men become unlawful, ST. Paul says, "Resist evil". I am a Greek not a Roman. These are two vastly different mentalities. The Greek spirit is the one that made America Great. Where the founding Fathers anarchist? Was St. Maximos the Confessor an anarchist? NO. Neither am I. The Roman Catholic Church teaches subliminally the Roman mentality. Ayn Rand talks about this difference in her books. By the Comprachicos not teaching knowledge but endorsing opinions, they have made people herdlike because THEY KNOW NO DIFFERENCE. Because they know no different, they are easily led and manipulated.

Now to get back on track with this thread. I am supply a THIRD reference to "being men" from Old Scout literature. From the l948 Handbook for Boys, page 62.

"Because he likes boys and wants to see them grow up to be real men."

Now we have three references from three different books from two different periods.  Two books from the l948; the Handbook for Boys and the Field Manual.  One book from l962; the Scoutmasters handbook. 

We now have three references about "becoming a man".   This idea came from somewhere.  We have scoutmasters denying that this is the purpose of scouting.  My whole premise is that this is the essential core of the Boy Scout program.  "To be REAL Men."    Notice the word "REAL". 

 The executive committee is no longer promoting this.  This is not by chance.  Nothing in Human History is chance.  There is always reason behind it.  If you have not done so, Please read the thread, "Socrates:  Culture defines Politics."

Now, will somebody bring up the original documents of the l910's so that we may discover for ourselves their original intent.  If scoutmasters think the BSA is not about "becoming a man", then prove your points with the historical documentation.  We now have three references on our side.  Where's your reference?  The executive committee???  Do we trust the executive committee????

[Twocubdad]

So after a week spent researching 100 years worth of BSA literature you've found two minor references to "turning boys into men" and another using the word "virtue" which you interpret using an obsolete definition as "manliness."

 

In all that research did you not notice hundreds of pages and thousands of references to the Scout Oath and Law? By a simple preponderance of evidence can you not conclude that primary mission of the BSA is to instill the values described in the Oath and Law? Even if you insist on distilling the core mission to "turning boys into men," is is not a reasonable conclusion that the BSA considers manliness to be defined by the Oath and Law?

[WHEELER]

The Scout Oath and Law are not "values" as I pointed out in the post "Socialist Words vs Christian Classical Words". The Scout Law is a list of virtues.

 

The Scout Law is not a complete list of virtues either. How can a boy reach manhood without having ALL the virtues? Where is the virtue "Prudence" in the Scout Law? Yet it is marked out by Plato, Aristotle and the writer of 4 Maccabees as the most important virtue of all. When is a boy scout going to hear "prudence"? Is there room for perfection?

 

The Scout Oath is an encapsulation of masculinity and manhood. It is not a value. To say that a woman takes the Scout Oath is ridiculous. The Scout Oath is a product of a manly culture. It is how 'men' transmit their social and intellectual nature.

The oath is an expression of masculine nature. It is not a value.

 

The Scout Oath and Law are not "in toto" what it means to be a man. "The good comes through the Hard". "Hard" makes the man. Yet where is this portrayed? It is somewhat in the "physical fit" part of the oath but it is not complete. "The good comes through the Hard" is central to the paideia of masculinity. The picture of the Boy Scout in the l911 excerpt is a good picture of a Scout's hardness. Hardness to the rigors of life is what Baden-Powell instilled in his trainees in South Africa.

Every boy needs to hear the phrase, "The good comes through the Hard".

 

No words are never obsolete. It is only that the Left doesn't want you to hear them.