This poster was quoted but is still alive & kicking...

[Laurie]

This thread was spun from another thread.I'm not quite sure how my words could be used this way, but they were used to lead up to a comment that the BSA is a communist organization. That comment alone made me angry, for I resent the recent trashing of the BSA that is taking place here. To have my name and my words used in a post leading to such an erroneous, inflammatory, and degrading comment leads me to this make this post.

 

If I wanted to, I could play this game of pulling a line or two here and there from a particular poster and make pretty much any point I wanted. I am tired of seeing my words and the words of others that I respect here (whether I agree with them or not) twisted and manipulated to give a perverse message of what the BSA really is. You who want to mess with the words of others (those long passed on and those alive and posting here today), we're on to you. We get what you're doing, and it isn't working.

 

I said this:

 

..., life is not always fun. However, fun is the best part of being a kid and usually what is sought after the most. The beauty of Cubs is that it is "fun with a purpose". As for Boy Scouts, the fun is a bit different, coming more in the way of adventure, particularly on outings. Always there is a purpose: character, citizenship, fitness. Noone here is denying that. What we know is that it is the fun that attracts the boys. This world is hard, and as the boys grow they will have more and more challenges and decisions to make, but they don't need to be serious now. They need to be allowed to be children. So I'm not sure what your view of Scouting is, but I'm glad that Scouting provides a safe haven for our youth, one built on fun activities. I trust that in those activities the boys will learn to better deal with the world around them (but that's the leader's job--to accomplish the purpose while the boys have the fun).

 

and

 

...it is clear that you must not have a working knowledge of the Scouting program. Maintaining childishness...that is not what is being suggested by previous posts. Understanding that children are...well, children...that's why the fun is important. All sorts of crimes are committed against children, abuse is reported daily, drugs and alcohol and weapons are making their way into younger and younger hands. Life is HARD. I am one of many who cares enough about my own children and other children to be involved in creating a safe and fun environment for youth as they learn to deal with the tough issues around them. Sadly, for many, that one hour a week of Scouting may be the only fun they do have. We don't know all the challenges a child faces in his daily life, whether it be on the street, in school, or in his home. What we do know is that caring compassionate adults who are willing to carry out the BSA program can help a child to grow into a young man capable of overcoming the obstacles he faces; it does not teach one to maintain childishness or remain a kid.

 

A poster replied various times to various people in a thread titled Am I Missing Something, claiming to hear the following message (in summary, not quoted):

 

Life is fun. All fun. The BSA embraces that, and it is all fun. After all kids are kids, and that of course, means no responsibility, no need for discipline or challenge or growth, no need to grow up at any time. It encourages childish behavior. It sets boys up for failure by leading them to think that the world is nothing but fun.

 

I suppose a poster could, if he/she wanted, also have received this message from the same thread and set of posts:

 

Life is hard. So very hard. Fun? No time for that because the challenges and difficulties in life, the increasing responsibilities faced by the boys are just too tough. One must be serious or risk wasting a life on the pursuit of fun and adventure. The BSA has a purpose, but it's missing the mark, because it ignores that life is hard.

 

What was TRULY said? Each of the above reflect--in part--what was said. However, when the posts are read in their entirety, the ACCURATE message is this:

 

Life is fun. Life is hard. The BSA provides a safe place for young boys to have fun while learning to deal with the world around them. The BSA understands that fun is appealing and even healthy, and it combines that with a well though out program that promotes character, citizenship, and fitness. When the program is carried out as intended, it promotes these things in a fun way so that young boys enjoy the journey to becoming grown up enough to continue contributing to society on their own at some point.

 

I am fully aware that when one pulls out one sentence or one phrase and focuses on it, a totally different story can be told. It was tempting to go through the posts of another and do this same thing, but I haven't the time nor the desire to wade through all that garbage again. I don't know about everyone else, but I'm tired of this, and I sincerely hope that this stops soon. It sickens me to see so many here post and then have their words twisted, but I can only speak for myself. I am also fully aware that my words really aren't all that important, but I do think we need to be willing to correct what is being done here. This little game being played is damaging, and for all those who do post, there are many more just reading. I care about the message others hear about the BSA, so I hope you'll understand and accept that I felt I had to address this.

(This message has been edited by Laurie)

[Achilleez]

"I sincerely hope that this stops soon. "

 

 

Laurie hopes that Scouting will stop soon!! Betrayer!!

[Laurie]

Achilleez--lol! You play this game waaay too well--had me checking to see if I had actually typed that I wanted Scouting to stop!

[matuawarrior]

Laurie,

 

Good post. I feel the same way. There are times when I read the different posts that I nod my head in agreement, Scratch my head trying to fugure out what the poster is trying to say, or just feel lost and then move on to another thread.

 

I make it a point not to squelch anyone out or ignore them but when they start rambling and it doesn't appear to help the program or is not what I'm interested in. I just move on.

 

Matua

[scoutldr]

I have to smile, because we are encouraging him (her?) by snatching the bait and running with it. Just ignore him and sooner or later he will go away looking for another forum to argue with. His posts are nonsense, and I suspect, the ramblings of someone who is in need of serious pharmaceutical therapy. Take a look at some of his threads and you will see 20-30 responses to something that everyone agrees is obtuse, off-topic and generally worthless to this forum. Squelch if you want, but I think censorship is repugnant. Personally, it scares me that people like that are walking around unheeded, ready to influence our youth. That makes our mission even more critical. If we argue with a fool, what does that say about us?

[buffalo2]

Think you've pretty well said it scoutldr.

This, too, shall pass...

[ManyIrons]

Scoutldr, you took the words right out of my mouth. If our newest member wants to fill his posts with philosophical ruminations, then lets roll some Zen back in his direction. By not responding to his posts well be, in effect, demonstrating the ancient riddle of what is the sound of one hand clapping?

[OldGreyEagle]

After my last dose of Wheelism, I am in, no more responses from me

[Rooster7]

So, put in philosophical terms (a.k.a., Wheelism), one might say:

 

If a wheel squeaks, and no one oils it, does it continue to squeak or will the wheel fall off?

 

Sorry Wheeler, I couldnt resist. I dont know anything about you, and frankly Ive only skimmed a post or two. Apparently youve ruffled the collective feathers of this forum. So, while it might appear as if this Rooster is taking sides with the Old Grey Eagle and a few other birds around here, the truth is Ive just been involved in Scouting too long and like to make bad puns.

 

[WHEELER]

I noticed Laurie that you have quoted nothing to back up your opinion: Life is fun. This is just your opinion. Why should we believe that statement? Where is that stated elsewhere?

 

Psalm 118:143 "Afflictions and distresses found me."

 

Book of Sirach 40:1 "Great travail is created for every man, and an heavy yoke is upon the sons of Adam, from the day that they go out of their mother's womb, till the day that they return to the mother of all things."

 

Sirach 41:14 "My children, keep discipline in peace."

 

Titus 2:7 "Show yourself in all respects a model of good deeds, and in your teaching show integrity, gravity.

 

Do you know why people do drugs? One of the reasons is that they want to continue having fun. Fun is a mentality that drives drug use and recreation.

 

We are to be serious with an cheerful attitude. Boys want adventure and challenging things that will push them to excell. Adventure is naturally fun for boys. But fun is not a goal in life. Fun is not an object of life.

 

Boy Scouts are about preparing them for manhood not in perpetuating puerileness. One inspires and motivates to do good. One thing is not needed in America is the perpetuating of more childishness.

 

Obscurantism is the policy of censorship but there is another way to accomplish this task and that is to get people sidetracked on trivialities.

 

Celebrations are fun but that is after the achievement. Having fun is a communist mentality that seeks to keep people childish.

[firstpusk]

"So, put in philosophical terms (a.k.a., Wheelism), one might say:

 

If a wheel squeaks, and no one oils it, does it continue to squeak or will the wheel fall off"

 

The wheels have fallen off of his arguments.

 

"...So, while it might appear as if this Rooster is taking sides with the Old Grey Eagle and a few other birds around here, the truth is Ive just been involved in Scouting too long and like to make bad puns."

 

Bad puns aside, I think the only other time you and I have agreed had something to do with Emeril. OGE, you and me all understand the difference that the BSA program can make in a young person's life. It is something the BIGWHEEL will never share and he is much the less for it.

[evmori]

Wheeler,

At least Laurie has her OWN opinion. Something -among other things - you lack.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Achilleez]

"Having fun is a communist mentality that seeks to keep people childish."

 

And I though FOG was a grump.

[Hunt]

I didn't read the other thread (nor will I), but I wondered if this quote on childishness got in there: "Verily I say unto you, except ye be converted and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."

 

I think our world needs MORE childishness (really, childlikeness), not less.

[OldGreyEagle]

Liars when they speak the truth are not believed.

Aristotle (384 BC - 322 BC

 

Pleasure is the beginning and the end of living happily.

Epicurus

 

There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers.

William James

 

What is the first business of one who practices philosophy? To get rid of self-conceit. For it is impossible for anyone to begin to learn that which he thinks he already knows.

Epictetus

 

Leisure is the mother of philosophy.

Thomas Hobbes

 

This is my simple religion. There is no need for temples; no need for complicated philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our temple; the philosophy is kindness.

Dalai Lama

 

The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith