The Boy Scouts and the United Nations

[Laurie]

"WHEELER, you are right about one thing, I don't know what it means to be a man. And you know what? I am proud to recite the Boy Scout Oath and Law every opportunity I get. I understand the Oath and the Law and I do my best to live my life by them. You don't have to be a man to do that." -- Scoutmom

 

I second this. Yes, I'm a woman, and I can never know what it is to be a man. However, that does not mean that I don't know how to carry out the mission and vision of the BSA. Nor does it mean that the boys and young men that I have had and continue to have the pleasure of serving will be any less masculine due to my influence. Wheeler, what you aren't getting--and I do believe you just don't get it because though you talk big, the more you talk, the less intelligent you appear--is that the PROGRAM will HELP the process of boys growing into men. It is the parent's job first and foremost, and that includes moms, though you mention women with contempt on more than one occassion. It also includes teachers; for one who claims to be so fond of knowledge, surely you can't miss the fact that a vast number of teachers are women. The list of what women can do to positively influence the growth of strong men in the future is long, though that isn't really what this is about. With each post you make, you show more contempt for the BSA, women in general, and the program and leadership of the BSA. With each post you make, you make it clearer that you actually know very little. You say that your points have all been proven, and you list one thing I've said to help make the case. Problem with this: I can't quite connect the 3 comments you made, and I sure don't see how they lead further on to the comment about the BSA being communist. Or could you just be upset that I don't believe your post on Being a Man had value? I still don't believe that; you added the BSA into a mix of stuff that was sheer nonsense, and that will get my attention because I resent the BSA being talked down. It isn't perfect, but those who DO care about it are willing to DO something about it. Not you; no, you have a list of excuses. Hey, ever think that maybe if you actually were willing to take part in the program that one less woman wouldn't have to? There are troops that have no male leadership because the men--for whatever reason--simply aren't available to lead. That is not a slam against men; that's just the way it is. You've apparently no intention of learning. You like attention; you've got it. However, if you don't care for being among those who think you speak as a fool more than as a knowledgeable person, you are in the wrong place. As for being a "manly man", you've said absolutely nothing that would lead me to think you are actually a male at all. The reality is that you could be anyone, male or female, and we've nothing but your word to go by. And how on earth do we get to this from a starting point of a topic about the United Nations? OGE typed out the merit badge requirements; NJ sure posed a good question about how you could be an Eagle and not know about this merit badge; the dictionary backs the definitions you find fault with.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

[Laurie]

Eamonn, too bad I didn't read your post before posting again. This guy (?) manages to bring out the worst in me. By the way, I have to ask, didn't you learn something new from Wheeler? He said you did in this thread:

 

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=53424&p=2

 

I thought it rather odd, but when it was not disputed by you, I figured maybe you had told him that he'd taught you something new.

 

By the way, though I've tried and Wheeler shows up on my Ignore User list (a list of one, by the way), I can't make him go away. He manages to squeeze through in spite of being squelched

[evmori]

I have never seen anyone not answer a question as well as Wheeler in a long time! Amazing! Nothing but spew!

 

I noticed Wheeler used the word oxymoron. Me thinks he used three too many letters!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[WHEELER]

To evmori

 

"Socialism and communism are not interchangeable terms."

 

In a sense they are. Socialism is the genus and communism is the species. Fascism is also a species of Socialism. Socialism is found in the acronym USSR and in NAZI. NAZI is the National Socialist Workers party and it's platform was socialistic. USSR is the Russian Soviet Federated Socialist Republic and it's platform was extreme socialism.

 

"The Bolsheviks defeated their opponents in a civil war(1918-20) forming the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics designated on Dec. 30, 1922." Encyclopaedia Britannica, Vol 10 pg 255.

 

Socialism either takes two forms communism or fascism. No way around it evmori.

 

To Old Grey Eagle:

 

The League of Nations is the precursor of the United Nations. Thanks for the heads up on that little bit of info. It explains alot of things now.

 

What caused WWII was WWI. WWII would never have happened if WWI did not. What caused WWI was an anarchist shot Prince Ferdinand of Autria in Serbia. Anarchism is a form of socialism. In order to stampede people into their creation of one world government, THEY, the socialists, caused the horrors of WWI. Woodrow Wilson the socialist, then proposed the "League of Nations" as the solution to WWI. First the socialist causes the problem and then says, hey, here is the solution to it. It is called Hegel's dialectic.

 

The League of Nations failed because the Senate of America rejected it.

 

It was resurrected in l949 as the United Nations.

 

On your second point, wrong again. Baden-Powell noticed that his soldiers were not up to what needed to be done in the Boer War. The IDEA first started when he was in the military and saw a defeciency in British soldiers. The Boy Scouts were in response to this first observation.

 

"But while in Mafeking cadets had had nothing to do with scouting they HAD been useful during the Siege, carrying messages and thus freeing for work in the trenches many adult riflemen who would otherwise have been needed for this orderly work. If members of Bristish cadet corps and brigades could do likewise, he told boys of Southport and Liverpool, 'THERE WOULD BE NO REASON WHY THEY SHOULD NOT TAKE THEIR PLACE IN OUR THIRD LINE IN DEFENDING OUR SHORES.'"

 

"While conceding that the Brigade's 'greater virtue lay in training boys to become the best type of citizens', he urged his young audience to make themselves 'a strong force behind the Volunteers and the Army.' The Boy-Man, pg 360

 

The Brigades were started by a William Smith himself a soldier and a Christian. The boys were in uniforms and drilled. The author uses the term "young Christian soldiers". Ibid pg 361.

 

The Scouting book itself has its predecessor a manual for the use in war and was developed during war.

 

Men are warriors and boys are to be trained to their task.

 

As to the merit badge "Citizenship for the World". I don't remember it. I don't have my sash with me and if I did; the first thing I would do is cut it off my sash and throw it away.

 

Third point. One of the rules of Lord Baden-Powell was Loyal to King. Democracy always seeks to kill kings. Socialism seeks to destroy monarchy. One can not be loyal to king and then be a part of socialism. Socialism is anti-monarchical. I will be loyal to King.

[OldGreyEagle]

The only reason I respond is because I would hate for any lurker, especially a youth to see your ramblings and beleive them to be true, especially if no one responded. What I have attibuted to Baden-Powell is from his own words, from a recording. If he says the Boy Scout movement is non-military then I have to accept him at his word. B-P wanted the Boy Scout movement to be the force that would render war impossible. It takes a soldier to want to end war, as only a soldier who has seen action truly understands its horrors.

 

Of course B-P wanted British scouts to be loyal to the King. The three aims of scouting are to improve Charactor, Citizenship and Physical Fitness. As a loyal British citizen he pledged his loyalty to King and country. As I remember most James Bond movies, James quite often refers to " King/Queen and country" as the reason why he does many of the things he does, not sure many would classify James Bond as a marxist/socialist or other similar tag.

 

When the Brits sing God Save the Queen, they are not pledging loyalty to Queen Elizabeth as much as loyalty to the state (Eamonn tell me if I am wrong) the Crown and Country are seen as one.

 

and lastly you wrote

 

"...What caused WWI was an anarchist shot Prince Ferdinand of Autria in Serbia"

 

I think you just upgraded Franz Ferdinand because he was an Archduke, not a Prince. Secondly, he was shot in Sarajevo, which I don't think was ever in Serbia, (I throw that out to others who will be sure to correct me if I am in error).

 

Archduke Ferdinand was from Austria, not Autria and to say that his assasination CAUSED WW1 is like saying the reason for the American Civil War was slavery.

 

Now, if you intend to post here as is your right please check your facts and then use the spell checker that SCOUTER-Terry has so graciously provided. With all your mispellings and confusion of facts that I can call you on, it makes one wonder how twisted your conceptions of Plato, Soctrates et al are.

 

In other words, you have a credibility problem which should be corrected before you expect to teach anything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[firstpusk]

WHEELIE you have a very shallow understanding of the issues that you discuss. You sound like soundbite journalism or if you will the ancient version a Sophist. You have nothing to add to the scouting program. While you grouse about something that you don't understand, good scouters will help young men become good citizens and leaders for the future.

[WHEELER]

Thanks for correcting me. Yes, I wrote fast and myself was imprecise on details. Yes, He was an Archduke. Yes, it was in Saravejo.

 

But I stand that WWI was about destroying the monarchies of Europe which it did, so that new forms could take their place. Anarchists were both the assasins of President McKinley and Archduke Ferdinand of Austria. Both to provoke change and destroy the old to bring in the new.

 

Socialism seeks the destruction of monarchy. Monarchy is the metaphysical expression of patriarchy.

 

If the Boy Scouts are about making men out of boys which is patriarchy how then can it participate in the UN which promotes feminism which destroys patriarchy?

 

The UN promotes every thing the Boy Scouts stand against. The United Nations promotes Homosexuality, New Age, Feminism, Atheism, etc.

 

How does one square feminism with patriarchy??????

 

Why is the BSA promoting an organization that expounds values opposite the Boy Scout program?

 

You can not serve two masters. Black and white are mutually exlusive. You can't have them together. Feminism and patriarchy are also mutually exclusive. You can not mix the two. They are mutually antagonistic. Do you live in the clouds or do you live in Reality?

 

To say I want to abolish wars is a pipe dream of people who don't live in reality. Truth is in reality. If one doesn't accept reality, one can not accept truth. Elements of Socialism declared that socialists are idealists. Idealists vs Realists. Two different seperate creatures.

 

What is there between the lion and the lamb? or the dog and the hyenna?

[purcelce]

Wheelie wrote "As to the merit badge "Citizenship for the World". I don't remember it. I don't have my sash with me and if I did; the first thing I would do is cut it off my sash and throw it away. "

 

After reading Wheelie's posts for the past week or so I've come up with these unscientific conclusions:

 

1. Wheelie isn't Yaworki or any other "odd" posters from the past.

2. Wheelie is a few bricks shy of a load.

3. Knows how to use the library very well.

4. Wheelie isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer.

5. Doesn't know squat about the BSA.

6. Doubt that he was an Eagle Scout or a Veteran.

 

Anybody else have input?

 

[OldGreyEagle]

There is nothing worse than aggressive stupidity.

Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

 

Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.

Euripides (484 BC - 406 BC), The Bacchae, circa 407 B.C.

 

How much easier it is to be critical than to be correct.

Benjamin Disraeli

 

Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do.

Dale Carnegie

 

Criticism comes easier than craftsmanship.

Zeuxis (~400 BC), from Pliny the Elder

 

[Bob White]

 

The First Law of Philosophy

For every philosopher, there exists an equal and opposite philosopher.

 

 

The Second Law of Philosophy

They're both wrong.

 

 

* * * * * * *

Question: What do you get when you cross the Godfather with a philosopher?

 

Answer: An offer you can't understand.

 

 

* * * * * * *

Question: What is a recent philosophy Ph.D.'s usual question in his or her first job?

 

Answer: "Would you like french fries with that, sir?"

 

[Hunt]

It's awfully hard to tell if Wheeler is a troll. My guess is probably not, because it would seem to me to be too much work to keep up such a persona if it wasn't real. I think what we are seeing here is the difference between being educated and being "self-educated." Somebody truly educated couldn't think that World War I was about anarchists trying to bring down monarchies--it was about countries with territorial ambitions (especially Germany) fighting each other. But that's just a digression. A person can come up with a lot of odd ideas just by dipping into books at the library--but it doesn't add up to a coherent approach to history or reality.

[OldGreyEagle]

I am not an Athenian or a Greek, but a citizen of the world.

Socrates

 

As empty vessels make the loudest sound, so they that have least with are the greatest babblers.

Plato

 

I exhort you also to take part in the great combat, which is the combat of life, and greater than every other earthly combat.

Plato

 

[evmori]

Dumber than a mud fence.

Ed Mori

[WHEELER]

Nice to see the socialists come out in defense of their organization. Notice in a previous post where Old Grey Eagle wants to make leather britches but doesn't want to read a book.

 

Tell me Old Grey Eagle, will any Boy Scout you lead hear the word "virtue" out of your mouth. Or is this term too GENDER SPECIFIC for you? How can a boy know what it means to be a man if he never hears the word 'virtue'?

 

Socialists will never use the word 'virtue'. They hate it and will not teach it.

 

Notice how none of the respondents answered to the oxymorons as stated. They cannot. They attack the messanger because they cannot answer the oxymoron since it will obviously show that they cannot exist logically.

 

Logic is something an effeminate man does not have. Only true men have logic.

 

Plato's Republic, the philosophers job is to "define and divide". (sec 454.) This is the encapsulation of "Black and White". An effeminate man sees just like a woman; all in "greys". Everything is melded together.

 

 

Answer the oxymorons.

 

One cannot have Duty to God and promote the UN.

One cannot have Duty to Country and promote the UN.

One cannot promote virtue and promote unisexism of the UN.

 

Paramendes principle of non-contradiction. A subject cannot hold two predicates that oppose each other.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

For those who question my virture or lack thereof, check out the following threads

 

Now What Do we do

 

Pregnant Leader

 

Left-handed smoke shifter

 

 

BTW as a side note, I do not lead boys, I serve a boy lead troop, there are no adult leaders

 

 

(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)