Politics 101

[WHEELER]

Please say the Pledge of Allegiance to yourself.

 

"I pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands..."

 

A Republic is not a democracy. Democracy is not a Republic. A Republic is not a parliamentary Democracy. A Republic is not a Constitutional Democracy. A Republic is not a representative Democracy. Nowhere in the classics do Plato, Aristotle, Polybius or Cicero use these terms interchangeably. Nowhere in the Federalist papers is democracy looked upon with favor. It is a REPUBLIC that our Christian Founding Fathers instituted and worked for.

 

Ask any honest liberal, and if he is knowledgeable and truthful, he will say that he is a socialist. Liberals are only socialists with the Orwellian name change. Socialism lives in democracies. Democracy is the worst form of government. Every country in the world is socialist. Europeans are proud to be socialistic. Australians and Canadians live in very socialistic societies. I lived in Europe for 3 and half years. I know. America is socialist. Most Americans are socialists. What do you think social security and food stamps are? Where is social security in the Constitution and where is it the duty of the federal government? Please quote article and section.

 

Socialism takes two economic forms, communism, where the state owns the property and controls it and the second form is the Hegelian synthesis between communism and capitalism, Fascism. Fascism is of the Left. Fascism is a form of Socialism.

 

Herbert Hoover describes Fascism thus: "Fascism, as distinguished from Socialism, preserves private property and enterprise as implements of bureaucracy." (Challenge to Liberty, 67)

 

From Ralph Epperson in his book, The Unseen Hand:

 

Free Enterprise System: Where the capital goods are owned and controlled by the individual.

Fascism: Where the capital goods are owned by the individual and controlled by the state.

Socialism: Where the capitol goods are owned and controlled by the state.

Communism: Where the capitol goods are owned and controlled by coercive monopolies." (ibid, 473)

 

Mussolini who coined the term fascism defined it thus "...that this will be a century of authority, a century of the LEFT, a century of Fascism;... it may be expected that this will be the century of COLLECTIVISM, and hence the century of the state..." (pg 66, The Challenge to Liberty, by Herbert Hoover who quotes it from the Encyclopedia Italiano Vol 14).

 

Hitler was of the left. But you will hear the term far-right neo-nazi in the press (who are college educated) and from political scientists.

 

Did you know that Nazi is an acronym?

 

Do you know what the acronym is?

 

National Socialist Workers Party. What Conservative calls himself socialist or of a workers party? What rightist calls himself socialist or of a workers party? NONE. How could rightist be a socialist? It is an oxymoron. (This is how stupid and ignorant most people are.)

 

"Almost all of these ideologies--socialism, ethnic nationalism, fascism, National Socialism of the Czech as well as of the German pattern--claimed to be democratic...

"All these philosophies are anti-Catholic, anti-monarchical, anti-traditional; they look solely to the future, want to build new society, and are "dawnist"...

"and claim to be "progressive" (Liberty or Equality, von Kuenhelt-Leddihn, Erik, l952 pg 211){ Erik von Kuenhelt-Leddihn is a staunch Catholic. He has just recently fell asleep in the Lord a year ago. By the use of the word von we know that he is an Austrian aristocract. He lived through the Spanish Civil War and WWII.}

 

 

"Naturally, Hitler knew all too well that the Nazi Revolution was "the exact counterpart of the French Revolution"; and he thought of himself not only as "the conqueror but also the executor of Marxism-of that part that is essential and justified, stripped of its Jewish-Talmudic dogma" .

 

"He was particularly proud of the extent to which he had learned from the political methods of the Social Democrats".

 

"National socialism is socialism in evolution," Hitler insisted, "socialism in everlasting change." And, he went on to admit, "There is more that unites us with than divides us from bolshevism... above all the genuine revolutionary mentality. I was aware of this and I have given the order that former Communists should be admitted to the party immediately". (All of the above quotes come from the book Leftism Revisited, Erik von Kuenhelt-Leddihn, l990 pg158)

 

Why is all of this important you ask?

 

Jesus is quoted in Luke 21:8 says, "Take heed that ye be not deceived."

In the Jewish Tanak (Old Testament) Proverbs 20:1 (KJV) "...whoever is deceived thereby is not wise".

In the book of Sirach (Septuagint), Eccl 13:8, "Beware that thou be not deceived..."

 

What was Eve's excuse to the Lord?

 

Genesis 3:14, "The serpent deceived me and I ate". The methodology of evil is deceivement. The devil works through deceivement. Does not St. Paul say the devil is as an angel of light (2Cor11:14). Why is the devil clothed as an angel of light. So that he can deceive. And what does deceivement bring: it brings its victims death. Is not the devil called the deceiver. What is the 9th commandment? Thou shalt not bear false witness. The least of the commandments was broken by the devil; thou shalt not covet; the 10th commandment. In the book of Solomon, Septuagint, Wis 2:24, "Nevertheless through envy of the devil came death into the world:..." But the devil envied and led him to break the 9th commandment; thou shalt not bear false witness, which he did. Eve believed the devil, convinced Adam to eat, and death followed in the wake of the deceivement. .

 

God is a judge. He will not hear that excuse again. Be Not Deceived. Do you bear false witness? Are you like Eve and are you deceived?

 

I am not deceived. 1 John 4:6 says, "By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error." Deceivement brings death and wisdom brings life.

 

Adonai is the Hebrew term for Lord. Lord is not a democratic term. It is an aristocratic term.

 

Psalm 10:16 (KJV) "The Lord is King". This is not the term of the democracy. It is term of a monarchy.

 

God is a King. Who has a throne but a King; Psalm 10:5 (Septuagint) "His throne is in heaven".

 

Socrates in Plato's Republic remarks that the heavens are ruled by One. Nature has one law and so it has one lawgiver. He ends the Republic with the knowledge that the Philosopher King must rule. As it is in the heavens so it must be on earth.

 

Every military unit is run by one. Each a king over a unit. One head one body.

 

Where did the words right and left to describe politics come from?

After the French Revolution, the French Republic was established. In the parliament, the pro-monarchists and aristocrats sat on the right and the democrats sat on the left.

 

An extreme rightist is a monarchist. A moderate rightist is for republican government. A leftist is for democracy. An extreme leftist is a socialist, communist, fascist, anarchist.

 

Where does the term conservative and liberal come from? The word conservative also came out of the French Revolution. It means one who conserves the OLD Order. Liberals, in Queens English, meant standing for liberty but this word has been morphed into being a cover for a socialist. A liberal is a progressive. He is to destroy the old order and replace it with his progressive ideology.

 

Every Christian is an extreme rightist. Jesus is Lord. God is King. That is a rightist statement. "God is King" is said within the Jewish services. Every Jew is a rightist and they don't even know it. When the soldiers in their intention to mock Jesus by saying, "All hail King of the Jews". (Mat. 27:29), the Holy Spirit was speaking through them, speaking the truth, for as it is paraphrased in Genesis 50:20, "Man proposes but God disposes". (see note 20 on page190 of Pentateuch and Haftorahs; Hebrew Text English Translation and Commentary, The Soncino Press.) Every Christian is a rightist because we seek the Kingship of Jesus over us and in our lives. This makes us monarchists. When we fall asleep in the Lord, we are not going to a democracy. We are going to a monarchy. God rules and what He says goes.

 

In Philippians 3:20, St. Paul says, "But our commonwealth is in heaven, ...". St. Paul uses the word "politeuma'. It is translated into the old English word, the commonwealth. A commonwealth is a republic. (Massachusetts and Kentucky are not states, they are called commonwealths.) 'Politeuma' is the Greek word for constitutional government. This word is used by Aristotle in his book, Politics, to describe a Republican form of government. Aristotle does not use the word democracy and republic interchangeably. Neither does Socrates in Plato's Republic. They are quite different institutions.

 

 

A republic is the rule of law. "...it is preferable for the law to rule rather than any one of the citizens, and according to this same principle, even if it be better for certain men to govern, they must be appointed as guardians of the laws and in subordination to them;... the law shall govern seems to recommend that God and reason alone shall govern..." (Politics III, xi3-5 or 1287a)

 

A democracy puts the people above the law. Aristotle noted, "men ambitious of office by acting as popular leaders bring things to the point of the people's being sovereign even over the laws." (Politics, V. iv 6 or 1305a)

 

Aristotle says in V vii 7 that "constitutional government turns into a democracy". Then, all three, Socrates, Plato and Aristotle warn that, "Tyranny, then arises from no other form of government than democracy." "And Huey Long very penetratingly said that when fascism came to the United States it would call itself democracy". (Liberty or Equality, Kuenhelt-Leddihn, 123)

 

What did God institute in the Torah, the first five books of the Pentateuch? He instituted a government of laws; a 'politeuma', a republic.

 

A republican form of government is a mixture of the best elements of three forms of government; the monarchy, the aristocracy and the democracy. Polu (poly) in the Greek word means `many'. The period of the judges in Hebrew history is the 'politeuma'. St. Paul refers to this exact situation when he refers to the state of the Chosen People as "the commonwealth of Israel" in Eph 2:12. God is the King and the judges were the aristocracy, through merit, that governed Israel. And the Law of God, the Torah, ruled the people. The prophet Samuel tried to keep the republic by unsuccessfully dissuading the people from making a monarchy.

 

Conclusion:

 

America is socialistic: the form we practice is fascism. Fascism being the mean between capitalism and communism.

 

Democracy is the worst form of government and always has been.

 

There is no longer a rule of law in this country. The people are above the law. All we hear from everybody how great democracy is; but it shows how much people are deceived and a deceived people are not wise. An unwise person is called a fool. Nature kills fools.

 

It is very funny to see that before WWII, National Socialism was considered on the Left; a part of socialism but after WWII, it changed to being on the right. It is also funny to see political cartoons that paint Jerry Falwell standing with Hitler as if Mr. Falwell had anything to do with Hitler and his rise to power.

 

The term, `The Christian Right' was a label attached by the Liberal Left upon fundamental Christians in order to denigrate Bible-believing Christians and to demonize them. Christians didn't label themselves, the liberal media and academics did. This has been the greatest propaganda ploy the Left has ever pulled. They gave birth to National Socialism but in order to keep power and to deceive people that they were really responsible for National Socialism, after the war, they did the Orwell name change and `wal-la' Hitler is of the right and so are the Christians. But like their leader before them who was mocked, Christians are also mocked. But God is not thwarted by man. No, "Man proposes but God disposes", They intend to mock Christians, but what they really did was tell the truth. Christians are Rightists in the truest sense of the word.

 

 

 

 

[Bob White]

So, what is your point?

[OldGreyEagle]

Exactly Bob, I think I will rank your post number one!!!

[WHEELER]

Did you not learn something? Tell me, you knew all this information already?

 

Is not the first law of the scout law to be "TRUSTWORTHY"?

 

How many of your boys in your boy scout troop think and are taught that we live in a democracy? How many boys have a FALSE knowledge?

 

Are we not to be "TRUSTWORTHY" to our state and heritage?

 

Does the requirements on citizenship say democracy or republic?

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

I find it odd you would open with the pledge of allegiance, considering the author was a socialist.

[OldGreyEagle]

We know so little about each other here, scouts for whom I counsel the Citizenship in the Nation merit badge will tell you the difference between a republic and democracy as I explain it in the first 5 minutes whenever I start this badge.

 

As we have Jewish, Hindu and Chrisitian scouts in this troop, I tend to leave biblical references out.

 

If the question is what did I learn, the answer is I have heard the sound of an axe being ground before, and am accostumed to it. The Right grinds its' axes, and the Left grinds theirs' that is nothing new.

 

It would be refreshing if some side would exhort its position explaining its merits bereft of decrying the other side.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[Twocubdad]

Wow, Wheeler must be one of the greatest writers and researchers I've ever seen. He's managed to post several threads of several thousand words in just a few hours! Hmmmmm.....

 

Do a Google search on some of the key words from his posts. It's enlightening (much more so than his posts). Much of this is based on the New World Order/black helicopter/Illumnati conspiracy stuff.

 

 

[NJCubScouter]

Among many other things that could be said about Wheeler's post, it shows the folly in relying too much on "labels." One of the fallacies is failing to recognize that the meaning of "labels" changes over time (well, except in the case of "liberal" where it apparently served the writer's purpose to mention how the definition has changed over time), and that even contemporanous writers can disagree about what the labels mean. I also notice that in a post that spends a lot of time talking about deceivers and deception, it takes Hitler at his word about what his ideology was and why he called his party what he called it. Hitler was one of the master deceivers of all time. He would have called his party "Shirley" if he thought that would advance his objectives.

 

Notwithstanding what Aristotle or Plato may have said (or meant), when this nation was founded, there were really only two choices in forms of government, a monarchy and a republic. The definition of a republic was a government in which the people, not a monarch, were sovereign. In the world of today there are a number of nations that call themselves "Republics" that we (or most people, anyway), would recognize as dictatorships (either of an individual, a military group or a single political party.) These would include the People's Republic of China, Egypt and Pakistan (the first two have the word "Republic" as part of their official title, I am not sure about Pakistan.) It once included the U.S.S.R. and the Soviet-dominated nations of Eastern Europe, all of which are now in various stages of becoming "democracies" (by which I simply mean nations that have governments chosen, directly or indirectly, in fair elections.) On the other hand, many of the monarchies in the world today (particularly in Europe) are "democracies," such as the UK, the Netherlands and the Scandanavian countries.

 

So much for labels.

[WHEELER]

The information is there.

 

I learned most of my stuff from Kurt Von Leddihn a German Aristocrat that lived and knows this stuff. Words and ideas are dangerous, they mean things.

 

I have been posting on another website and the more I wrote, the more I came to see that my writings have a bearing on the BSA. We are in a cultural war. I am an Eagle Scout and a Former Marine. I have been searching a long time for the BSA message board and I found this.

 

Let's get the discussion going.

[OldGreyEagle]

Its hard to visualize a discussion when you already Know all the answers

[scoutingagain]

"I have been searching a long time for the BSA message board and I found this. "

 

Man, are we lucky or what?

 

SA

 

 

[evmori]

I'm sure there was a point to Wheeler's post other than being informational. Anyone know what it is?

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Proud Eagle]

I can't speak for wheeler's other posts, but most of what he posted here seems to agree with the various readings and research I have done into such matters.

 

NJ does have a valid point about the term "liberal". Part of this has to do with the distortion of the terms over time. This is partly do to each side wishing to claim a certain heritage, and partially to denigrate the other side through false labels. Though the biggest difference is probably found in the use of what are essentially European (or perhaps British) terms to describe American politics. If you look at what the conservative movement in Britian stood for, and still stands for, and compare it to the Republican party, you will find the two do not equate perfectly. In the same way the classical term of liberal doesn't really fit Democrats. The true liberals of today are probably the libertarians. The Democrats are more or less progressives (though that would imply that Republicans oppose progress, wich is not true).

 

Anywase, I have been in a few arguments about these sorts of things before. The problem is that people have been convinced that certain things are good. (democracy, progress, equality, justice, etc) Then various political groups and individual politicians try to lay claim to those things. However, often they claim to represent, or champion things they do not. Over time the deceptions of politicians has caused many to begin believing the rhetoric of the politicians and forgetting the truth.

 

Now, all of this sort of thing can be interesting to someone wishing to study the history of politics, but the question is what relevance does it have? There is certainly one group of people that believe that if they can simply teach people the truth as they see it that everyone will sudenly see the light and agree with their political and social positions. Unfortunately for them I don't think that is true. Just because most people have no idea what the term liberal or conservative meant 50 or 100 years ago doesn't mean their opinion about social security will change when someone teaches them that.

 

Also, there are some greater, more fundamental political considerations at stake. Most "conservatives" would argue that once a term is created it cannot be changed, or certainly can only be changed very slowly. On the other hand the views of "liberals" allows for the meaning of things to change or evolve far more easily. The most common example of that can be found in arguments over Constitutional law. Most liberals would support the position that the Constitution is a living ducument and that its meaning changes as society changes. On the other hand most conservatives would support the position that the meaning of the constitution can only be changed by amendments, and there is no ability for the courts to evolve or adapt the constitution to changing times.

 

Any way you look at it this is really more of an academic rather than practical discussion.

 

Oh, for anyone wanting more about this read "History of Conservatism". It was written in the 1950s, I believe, and is probably long out of print. It isn't worth searching out, but if you run accross it you should give it a read.

[LovetoCamp]

My eyes crossed right before they glazed over, I was barely able to reach the back button and weakly made my way back to the relative safety and calm of the forums at backpacker.com.