NWScouter Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Anyone catch the Super Bowl Half-time-- See Kid Rock wearing a US Flag as a poncho? Not my idea as a proper use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hops_scout Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Totally illegal!!!!!!!!! Made me too mad for me to express on here. Of course, my sisters wanted to sit there and argue with me about it. And then, he just kind of tossed it off. Problems- 1. Wearing the flag 2. Tearing or cutting the flag 3. Flag was upside down- means total distress. 4. Just wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eamonn Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Yes and this wasn't the only wardrobe mishap. Eamonn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgen Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 I didnt get as close of a look at it as I would have liked but I think the true question would be in whether or not it was a flag patterned poncho or a poncho made of flags, although I personally choose not to wear any items that could be construed as being made from a flag, bandanas, t-shirts, shorts, etc that have a pattern similar enough to the US flag. As long as those items of clothing are not made from actual flags I consider it a sign of patriotism, although perhaps misguided, I have always had an urge to wear a bandana while rock climbing that has a blue field with white stars and red and white strips surrounding it, but have chosen not to, simply to reduce conflict, instead resorting to a plain, less symbolically important bandana. hops-scout: Unfortunately nothing that kid rock did was ILLEGAL. The first amendment of the constitution has protected anyone from prosecution for defacing the US flag in any way, shape or form. The courts have supported this position multiple times. Personally I believe it should be considered a hate crime, however that is not the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Old Guy Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 " The courts have supported this position multiple times" The law hasn't been repealed and the Supremes can always change their minds.(This message has been edited by Fat Old Guy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LovetoCamp Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 http://www.legion.org/?section=our_flag&subsection=flag_related&content=flag_related Follow this link and sign on with the American Legion in its persuit of protecting the flag. Welcome Aboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlyn_LeRoy Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Who here thinks such a law would be enforced equally against these violators? http://www.newhousenews.com/archive/Rios061203.html http://bushlibrary.tamu.edu/photos/GWBush/P24323-04.html http://www.hourwolf.com/spr/images/abbiehoffman.jpg http://www.fresnostatenews.com/2002/sept.%2011%20flag%20shirt.jpg http://www.cyclerides.com/photos/ridephotos/patriotparade02/image14.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud Eagle Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 I don't have the text of the flag code at hand at the moment so I am speaking based on memory. I seem to recall that images of the flag, and flag like patterns that are not actually flags, are not treated the same way as an actual flag. Now this is somewhat of a nuanced argument. Is a T-shirt with the complete flag printed on it a shirt that contains a flag or a shirt with an image of the flag on it? I think the flag code would indicate it is just an image of the flag rather than the flag itself. I seem to remeber there was a similar discussion relating to the flag patches on the uniform and weather or not those are flags or representations of the flag. I don't remember wha the outcome of that argument was. Now I didn't see the half time show so I can't personally make a judgement about the issue. However, if he was wearing a complete flag, or something made out of a flag, then it would clearly violate the flag code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 This may be picking nits, but I see a difference between a garment made to look like the flag, and wearing an actual flag. All the pictures merlyn has graciously supplied are garments or accessories, designed and manufactured for the purpose of wear. The flag kid rocks in the head wore as a poncho was a real flag (I swear I saw grommets on the edge) with a hole cut in it for his head, my son and I looked at each other as soon as we saw it and both said "thats wrong". Wonder if Toby Keith will have somethng to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubsRgr8 Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 It sure looked like a real flag to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LovetoCamp Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 There's a difference between wearing a nice shirt and physical desecration. I think of my Grandpa's generation and the sacrifices they made, several from my own brigade didn't come home from the desert and yet Merlyn's friends are able to use the flag as a latrine and call it art. For ten years, all over the world at 0600 the cannon, BOOM, would go off, the bugle would play revielle and everybody around me walking, running, or driving a car, would stop and salute that flag going up. At 1700, To the Colors and Retreat would sound, everyone would face the flag as she came down. I just love watching the Scouts do flag ceremonies. I don't know why Merlyn and his ilk hate this country so much, but the bottom line is, they won't go to jail for using the Flag as butt wipe, or burning her, or stomping on her, I'll be the one going to jail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlyn_LeRoy Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 OGE writes: This may be picking nits, but I see a difference between a garment made to look like the flag, and wearing an actual flag. All the pictures merlyn has graciously supplied are garments or accessories, designed and manufactured for the purpose of wear. No, Barbara Bush wore an ordinary flag as a scarf (someone handed it to her during her inaugural walk, and she just wore it as a scarf). I'm pretty sure Abbie Hoffman's famous shirt was made from an actual flag, too. And many flag laws didn't distingush between "real" flags and things that resembled flags. And I don't know why Trail Pounder and his ilk hate free speech so much. So, are you going to go beat up Barbara Bush? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 I noticed Kid Rock was wearing some sort of American flag costume but frankly at that point I was busier being surprised that CBS and/or the NFL thought that a grunge-rap/Janet Jackson/Justin Timerlake concert was what most of the audience at a football game really wanted to see. I even said so, instigating an argument with my 21-year-old daughter and her boyfriend. (Well, I may have actually said, "Real men don't like rap." These kids today, they have no sense of humor.) Music from my generation (Aerosmith) was relegated to the pre-game, along with a very respectful rendition of the National Anthem from a singer who was attired much more respectfully than she usually is, and that tribute to the Columbia astronauts. Things went downhill by halftime, though. But as for Kid Rock, who I generally find detestable: OK, depending on what he was actually wearning, it seems that he didn't obey the Flag Code. Whether what he did was "illegal" would indeed depend on the current interpretation of the First Amendment, and I think Merlyn is correct, it is protected "speech." But what makes me curious about this discussion is, those of you who are upset about this, what do you think was being "spoken"? In other words, what "message" do you think Kid Rock was trying to send? Disrespect for the flag? Or for the country? I didn't get that at all, in fact just the opposite. He was "wrapping himself in the flag," both literally and figuratively. I doubt that most of his target audience knew that he was violating the Flag Code, if indeed he was. I don't think that was his intent. What they saw, and frankly what I saw, was a singer proudly displaying the flag of our country on national tv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Whether the garment (or whatever) is cloth or an actual flag is unimportant because it IS the symbolism that seems to bring these arguments out. However, I can remember when Gulf Oil Company (now BP/Amoco) gave out little self-sticking plastic flags to put on our automobile windows. That caused a flap back then as well (in the '60s as I remember) Now our highways are littered with the little flags that patriots didn't bother to retrieve when their little plastic staffs broke at 80 mph. When the troop does their highway cleanup project and one of the boys picks up such a flag, half-embeded in mud or infused with broken glass, is he to retire it in the traditional manner - or merely to put it into the trash bag with the beer cans, junk food wrappers, and baby diapers? I also remind everyone of my neighbors who fly our national symbol...just below the Confederate flag on the same staff. They consider themselves to be more patriotic than average, go figure. Just as inconsequential. Am I supposed to know who Toby Keith is? P.S. I confess I missed the half-time display of flesh because I was getting another beer and joking around with my buddies. Such are the evils of demon drink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Just to be fair, Merlyn did not say he was in favor of desecrating the flag nor has he ever told us he or any of his "ilk" have participated is such a demonstration. We have plenty of issues to argue with Merlyn about, but flag desecration is not one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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