San Diego att'y explains why city settled with ACLU

[Bob White]

"People said much the same thing about Jews; nothing personal, they just didn't like Jews." I find that sort of comparison cowardly, misleading and inaccurate.

 

The fact is, while I have nothing against a member of the Jewish faith, they would not be allowed to join my faith unless they accepted the tenets I have accepted in my church. Does that make my church discriminating? As a matter of fact it does. In the same way I would not be allowed to become a leader in the Jewish faith unless I embraced their beliefs.

 

That is the wonderful thing about our society. We have the power of choice. If you want to join the BSA you must accept the tenets of the BSA. It is your choice. The BSA is not keeping atheists out. Atheists are keeping themselves out. They have the choice to accept God in a variety of ways, but they choose not to.

 

No one is imprisoning you, or torturing you, or developing technology to exterminate you en masse. In fact the BSA is more than willing to not effect your life at all, unless you ask us to, by wanting to serve God and community through service to both. But you chose not to.

 

What is my feeling on schools chartering units? First let me point out an irony. I have seen hundreds and hundreds of charters and have never seen one chartered to the school itself. You have never seen a charter, let alone one that was chartered to a school, yet you are positive they exist.

 

If you could only accept the existence of God as easily as you accept the existence of a charter YOU could be a member of the BSA. In many religions "believing without having seen" is a sign of faith. Funny ain't it?

 

Next

When I sell a product to a customer, my concern is "will they" fulfill the contract, not "how will they". The "how" is their business, not mine. The BSA asks an organization to sign the charter IF they can agree to operate the unit according to the policies of the BSA. The question is "will you" not "how will you". The "how" is for the Charter Organization to determine not the BSA.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Bob White writes:

"People said much the same thing about Jews; nothing personal, they just didn't like Jews." I find that sort of comparison cowardly, misleading and inaccurate.

 

Hey, too bad for you, eh? I find your remarks about atheists similar to antisemite remarks about Jews. You dismiss an entire class of people based solely on their religious views.

 

Irony cuts both ways; you're convinced an invisible superbeing exists, but you refuse to believe public schools charter units, even though there are BSA figures for public schools, the BSA website mentions "public schools" as among their chartering partners, and a number of other people seem to have no problem believing public schools charter BSA units.

[evmori]

Merlyn,

Atheists are not allowed to be members of the BSA. Public schools are allowed to charter BSA units. You argument is by chartering a BSA unit they are supporting atheisism. Well then if a school has a club for homosexuals, are they supporting homosexuals? No. They are supporting our 1st Ammendment right to freedom of speech & religion. By not allowing a public school to charter a BSA unit is a violation of the 1st Ammendment.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[NJCubScouter]

BobWhite says:

 

We are also prejudiced against atheists. I will not try to foster a friendship with anyone that let it be known they lacked the moral integrity to recognize God's hand in their life. I will not do business with them, they will not enter my home.

 

So I guess "A Scout is Friendly" only goes so far, eh? Of course you have a right to decide who you do business with and who enters your home. But to say that atheists as a group lack "moral integrity" does not seem particularly consistent with the Scout Law to me. Not only is it not "friendly" but it does not "respect of the beliefs of others" as stated in the explanation to "A Scout is Reverent." I have known many atheists (and in the interest of full disclosure, as I have said previously, at times when I was younger I believed that I was an atheist myself, though I don't think I was ever an "avowed atheist") and some of them were at least as "moral" as other people I have known who professed to be "religious." I think "morality" is demonstrated in how one treats what God has created, and not necessarily in whether (or how) one believes in or "worships" that which can only be believed, not proven, to exist.

 

Now, if you are talking about the kind of atheist who goes around all the time saying God does not exist and stating or implying that other people shouldn't believe in him/her/it either, you can disregard part of the above. While still not necessarily indicative of a lack of "moral integrity," I find such people just as irritating as those who are contantly telling me that I should believe in a particular concept or formulation of God. And it's funny you should mention entering your home, because I have had people knock on my door, or stop me on the street, wanting to sell me on their particular version of God or how God should be worshipped. I don't let them in, and once I figure out why they are stopping me on the street, I move along. And none of the folks at my door, or waving literature at me on the street, have been promoting atheism.

 

And just to make it clear, I am not saying the BSA should let in avowed atheists, not because I believe they are lacking in morality, but because I can't ingore the clear language of the Scout Oath and Law regarding God, and I believe the BSA's current practice allows as much leeway as possible within the words of those statements as to what one can believe and still qualify for membership -- well, except for religious beliefs regarding homosexuality, some of which are ok with the BSA and others of which are not -- but that is (mostly) a different matter.