My cold dead hands...

[nldscout]

FOG said

"If you miss, you have nine .36 caliber projectiles ripping through the walls. I have one. :-) "

 

Use numer 8 bird shot, that way you have a bigger spread and the little pellets won't go through walls. May not kill then, but sure will hurt them a lot

 

 

 

[Bob White]

Does a gun have to involved in a death for it to be counted as used illegally? For instance that truckload of automatic weapons that was stolen. Isn't every person who now has possession of one of those guns involved in a crime?

 

What about all the handguns that are used to commit a robbery but never fired, where do the statistics record them?

 

I am not anti-gun, like others who have posted I do not own one but I have nothing against those that do. However, having two brothers who are veteran police offers in suburbs of a major city, I am aware of the safe use of firearms, and the frequent abuses of gun possession by both legal and illegal owners.

 

A responsible gun owner with children in their home will store the handgun and ammunition in separate locked locations, right? So in case of a home intrusion you would awake, evaluate the situation, silently access both locations, load the firearm and in your haste, in the dark, having just woken up, find the correct target, and with unimpaired judgment aim and fire?

 

Does this happen successfully, sure but not very often. More often than not the gun owner is not home when the house is broken into. Why? Because crooks want to steal what you have at their pace not yours. In a total of about 40 years in law enforcement neither brother has been to a home where the owner got to the gun before the crook did or before the crook had left. Only one has ever needed to fire his weapon in order to make an arrest or defend himself, and only once.

 

If any of you know police officers they would tell you that if you want your home to be secure to invest in good exterior lighting, clear landscaping from windows and doors that might conceal a criminals entrance, Have good deadbolt locks on all exterior entrances and on interior doors leading to the basement and garage, Stop your paper and mail if you are not going to be home, and ask a neighbor to keep an eye on your home when you go on vacation.

 

No one ever shot a spouse or child by mistake by taking the steps listed above. Crooks are like raccoons in a campground. They are going to go to the easiest target where finding food is the easiest. If you control you litter, hang you garbage, put you gear away, then the varmints go ravage a different site. Once you realize they are in the site it's usually too late to react.

 

Food for thought

Bob

 

[Fat Old Guy]

I haven't been able to find numbers for "threats" such as "give me your money or I'll shoot you" but no shots were actually fired but I'm sure they are out there. However, the FBI says that the weapons used in 32% of violent crime are feet, hands and other body parts. Firearms accounts for about 27%. Some criminologists claim that guns in the hands of honest citizens account for some 2.5 million instances of crime stopping without a shot being fired.

 

"A responsible gun owner with children in their home will store the handgun and ammunition in separate locked locations, right?"

 

Most guns should be stored unloaded but a gun for defense is useless if it is unloaded. Like a parachute or seatbelt, you may never need it but if you don't have it when you do need it, you'll never need anything again. The intelligent gun owner teaches his kids firearms safety just as they teach them how to work around a hot stove or use a sharp knife.

 

I know more than a few cops and I don't know one who unloads his gun at night and stores the gun and ammo in separate locations. At best, some unload their pistols and leave the magazine with the pistol. I guess in your mind that makes them irresponsible. I do know one whose ex-wife made him leave his service pistol in his car at night.(This message has been edited by Fat Old Guy)

[Adrianvs]

I have a society sword under the bed. Does that count?

[lasteagle83]

I've watched this thread with interest, and feel I must speak for those who HAVE used a firearm to protect themselves.

 

I am one of them.

 

Several years ago, while driving to work one morning on the expressway, I had a blowout. Unfortunately, it was in an area with very narrow shoulders, so I pulled off the interstate at the next exit and proceeded to start changing the tire. Although this was a very bad section of town, I figured I'd be more likely to be hit by another vehicle on the interstate than to be robbed on a side street.

 

Guess again.

 

Prior to leaving the vehicle, I chambered a round and stuck my pistol in my pocket. I have a legal permit to carry this weapon, so I was well within my rights to do so. As I was starting to change the tire, I heard a "gentleman" come up who said he would gladly change the tire for $5.00. I told him I had the situation under control. The click of a knife opening and his demands for ALL my money soon followed.

 

Mr. Bad Guy could not see, in my kneeling position, the pistol in my front pocket. I sprang to a standing position, pulling my weapon at the same time, and backed away from him with the weapon in a neutral position (pointing down). He quickly realized the error of his ways, and left me alone.

 

Needless to say, that became the FASTEST tire change I'd ever done! :-)

 

I wholeheartedly respect the rights and opinions of those of you who do not own or desire to own firearms. However, I can tell you that at least ONCE in this world, the presence of a firearm did deter a crime. I have no doubt in my mind that had I not had the pistol, and resisted him, I would definitely have been robbed and likely stabbed.

 

Did I feel good about having to draw my pistol to protect myself? NO.

 

Would I do it again to protect myself, my family, or the things I've worked hard to earn? YES.(This message has been edited by lasteagle83)

[JimmyD]

I support people carrying/having firearms with them and at their home. I'm glad i lvie in PA. I'm a member of the NRA and they feature articles like what the author of this topic put here. That guy needs to get out that town.

[le Voyageur]

Returning back to the topic of the 2nd Admendment, I would like to offer a different perspective on the interpertation of this Admentment that NJCS had commented on.

What I feel, is that the wording is confusing due to the fact that current interpertations are not reflective of the era that it was written in. Prior to the French supplying arms to the patriots about half way through the Rev. War, all members of milita units had to supply their own arms at their own expense. To be able to keep and bear arms insured that milita units would be capable of rising to their own defense be they along the Atlantic seaboard, or deep in the fronteer. Without men who had arms, Washington's task of raising an army would of been impossible. Knowing this, the Framers simply wanted to ensure the surival of their new nation by keeping it's citizens armed not only in the event of future wars, but because they also feared greatly a standing army....thus, "The right of the people to keep and bear arms..."

[captainron14]

Very interesting. I did not know that a state could interfear with a person's Constitutional Rights (2nd).

Has this gone to the Supreem Court?

This is as wacky as the "Idiot" Cities who tried to sue the gun manufacturers because of crimes committed with guns.

Thank God the courts ruled with common sense.

 

It goes to show you how far "some people" will go to destroy our way of life.

 

[RobK]

FBI crime statistics are that fewer than 0.2% of all guns in America have ever been used in any crime. Guns kept for self-protection are almost never used against their owners. As a simple test, think back to the last time you heard of it happening. If it happened, you'd hear about it on the news. I personally can't recall a single instance in my 30+ years. Moreover, the statistics show that you are LESS likely to be injured as a crime victim if you resist, with a gun or without. Also, gun related accidents are at all time lows.

 

One thing you won't hear on the news is that almost all gun crime is committed in the inner city and is black-on-black.

 

Regarding the Second Amendment, "well regulated", in 1789, meant well trained.

 

As to home defense, a 12 gauge pump shotgun loaded with 00 Buck is probably the best for someone who isn't really serious about his shooting. A long gun is easier to hit with than a handgun. Wall penetration shouldn't be a problem because you're not going to fire unless you're in imminent danger, and if you're in imminent danger you better be able to hit him! If you're really worried about it though, use #4 Buckshot. Also, you have a much higher probability of a one shot kill than with a pistol. Jeff Cooper (retired Marine Colonel, shooting teacher, and founder of the IPSC) has a good piece on this in his book "To Ride, Shoot Straight, and Speak the Truth".

 

Bob's point about when burglars strike is a good one. In the UK, so-called "hot" burglaries, which take place when the house is occupied, are on a dramitic rise. Why? Because the government, in the form of it's near universal gun ban, has given the crooks a guarentee that they won't get shot by the householder. If you know the householder won't have a gun, why not rob the place while he's there to show you where all the good stuff is?

 

On the other hand Bob, when I have problems with `coons, I trap them, shoot them, and sell them to the fur buyer. Much simpler way of solving the problem...

[SR540Beaver]

lasteagle,

 

Your only mistake was in not making him finish changing your tire for free at gunpoint!

[SR540Beaver]

Well gee FOG, give me enough credit to know better than to shoot a gun in the general direction of my family. I would after all be trying to protect them, not kill them. When I've hunted birds, I was smart enough to know not to shoot the dogs.

[Bob White]

On the other hand RobK.

In your case, even if you catch the raccoons, you have not addressed the real problem which is the condition of the campsite. If you kept a proper campsite you would not have raccoon problems. Seems an even simpler solution.

 

"Some criminologists claim that guns in the hands of honest citizens account for some 2.5 million instances of crime stopping without a shot being fired."

 

Did the criminologists say how many of those guns are used by law enforcement officers?(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[lasteagle83]

Yeah, Beav, and knowing my luck, THAT would have been the moment Atlanta PD drove up!!! :-)

[Achilleez]

Im happy that i live in Canada so i dont need a gun. Not that I would ever buy, take, have or use a gun. Guns have one purpose, and that is killing/injuring people, something i take no pleasure in. If you can show me a hidden chapter in the bible where Jesus pulls out an M-16 on the guards coming to crucify him, then maybe ill take a gun. Until then... i dont think anyone should have one.(This message has been edited by Achilleez)

[LovetoCamp]

Your English cousins turned all their personal owned firearms in to the government for safety also. Violent crime against innocent citizens is exploding in England which now has a higher violent street crime rate than New York City.

 

The Nazis collected up all the guns too when they took over the government. When the time came for the German Militia to defend their Bunker Hill, it was too late, they'd already been neutered.

 

In my humble opinion the militia would be every able bodied citizen ready to provide a defense. "shall not be infringed."(This message has been edited by Trail Pounder)