My cold dead hands...

[LovetoCamp]

As many of you know from news reports, a home invasion earlier this week was foiled by a homeowner who shot the perp twice. The criminal fled the house by jumping through a window and was later arrested at the hospital. Also arrested was the homeowner because Wilmette, IL, the town in which he lives, prohibits its citizens from owning handguns. This incident again illustrates the folly of denying citizens the right to access the best means of self defense available - the handgun.

[Fat Old Guy]

Don't you know that he should have called the police and then fled his home. At least that's what the police around here tell you. Of course, if you get killed, the police say that it isn't their fault and the Supreme Court has declared that the police have no obligation to protect you.

 

 

[LovetoCamp]

39 states allow a trained law abiding citizen the right to carry if they so choose, Illinois is not one of them. Can we sell cede Chicago to Wisconsin?

[SR540Beaver]

I have no problem with gun ownership for home protection as long as the gun owner is trained in the use of the gun. Years ago I heard a statistic that was fairly high of how many homeowners were killed with their own handguns during break-ins. Buy a gun and protect your home, but don't wait until you need to use it to learn how. I prefer my shotgun. Hearing a shotgun pumping a shell into the chamber in the dark can be very disconcerting for a criminal. Besides, the aim does not have to be quite as accurate.

[CubsRgr8]

Hold it, TrailPounder! If you cede Chicago to us cheeseheads (and proud of it!), then we'll be stuck with the Bears - shudder! Go Pack!

[LovetoCamp]

I've read other statistics that state upwards of 2.5 million crimes are prevented by the threat of a firearm, the display of a firearm, or the actual sending rounds down range.

 

My kids are getting pretty good getting into position aquiring a bull and putting some lead on target. The more time on the range they get and the more cleaning of rifles and pistols they do the less and less curious they've become.

 

I've read how the anti-gunners scewer the stats to include teen gangbangers and teen drug dealers and then claim and sell it like it is kids being killed by an accidental shooting in their own homes.

 

The 2nd Amendment protects all the rest of them!

 

[Fat Old Guy]

The Beave said, " Years ago I heard a statistic that was fairly high of how many homeowners were killed with their own handguns during break-ins."

 

Fortunately, the FBI doesn't support that statistic, according to them it is rare for a homeowner to have a gun taken away by an intruder and used against them unless the intruders primary intent in the burglery was violence against the resident.

 

TP commented, "'ve read how the anti-gunners scewer the stats to include teen gangbangers and teen drug dealers and then claim and sell it like it is kids being killed by an accidental shooting in their own homes."

 

They also extend "children" to be into their 20s to increase the numbers.

 

Beave opined, "Besides, the aim does not have to be quite as accurate."

 

Not sure what you mean by this. The popular notion that a shotgun has a 3 foot spread across the living romm is a notion of popular fiction. At 20 feet, a shotgun has a pattern of a few inches. Another problem with the 12 guage is that even the wadding will penetrate a sheetrock wall. Not a good situation if your loved ones are down range.

 

 

 

 

[dsteele]

Intersting that this came up today.

 

Let me preface by saying that I don't want a gun. I don't have a problem with gun owners or guns, I simply don't want one because I don't target shoot and don't feel the need to spend the money to buy one for my protection or any other reason. If one were given to me, I wouldn't refuse it or throw it out. I'd lock it up and it would sit.

 

You can own a gun and keep it in your home, or, if your state allows, in your pocket. I don't have much feeling one way or the other.

 

However, if one had been in my house last night, I probably would have dug it out.

 

I went to bed late -- after trying to stay up past 1:00 AM watching the extended version of the Two Towers -- and something woke me up at about 3:00 AM.

 

When I walked out of the master bedroom (we have a ranch house with three bedrooms.) The three are all along a corridor directly in front of the front door.

 

Anyhow -- the front door was open and for all I knew someone had just come through it. It was closed when I went to bed, although I was not the last one through it.

 

Somehow traipsing through the house in my underwear and carrying my new golf club in front of me as my only defense was not as comforting as having a .38 would have been.

 

After all, I'm a better shot with a .38 than I am with a driver.

 

Fortunately, my wife had not shut the door completely and it was an easterly wind that opened it and not a homeless person or a burgaler.

 

In retrospect, I suppose I should have dug out my sword cane (I actually have one) or at least taken the head cover off the driver.

 

DS

[purcelce]

TP wrote "39 states allow a trained law abiding citizen the right to carry if they so choose, Illinois is not one of them. Can we sell cede Chicago to Wisconsin? "

 

Amen to that. We yahoos down in the southern part of the state are stuck with some pretty goofy handgun laws due to the knuckleheads in Chicago and Springfield.

 

I own a Smith and Wesson 9 MM. It sits in my dad's gun safe in Ky. I refuse to pay for a Firearm Owner's Permit. Why should I have to pay another "tax" on my gun. I paid the sales tax when I bought the thing 10 years ago.

 

 

[NJCubScouter]

TrailPounder and/or FOG, I wonder if you have any statistics on how many guns, kept in homes for security, are stolen and used in crimes? (And, FOG, I don't mean used against the owner necessarily, I mean used in crime at any time.) Or how many guns carried legally are taken from their owners by criminals and used against the owners, or stolen and used in crimes against someone else? Or how many accidents occur with legal guns, even after accounting for any "skewering" of the statistics.

 

As for the second amendment, in my humble opinion it is so poorly written that I don't think anybody really knows what it means. But you can't ignore the part about the "well-regulated militia."

[SR540Beaver]

FOG,

 

I'll take a shot pattern of a few inches over a 9mm wide bullet any day if my family's safety is at risk.

[Eamonn]

I don't own any guns. Have to admit to not liking the idea of having one in the house.

I did wake up one day to find a kitchen drawer full of handguns. My Father-Inlaw was in the final stages of cancer and was contemplating suicide so my Mother-inlaw brought all the guns to our house. My big fear is that I would shoot myself in the foot or that Her Who Must Be Obeyed who is a great shot will start to get ideas!!

I do have a lot of good pals who hunt and get a lot of enjoyment out of it. We used to have a Wild Game Dinner with the meat that they donated and we would give the profits to youth organizations. I have been a supporter if the Wild Turkey Ass.As a thank you for work that I have done they have given me a lifetime membership. So While I don't want a gun I don't have anything against guns or gun ownership.

As those who know me are aware I do at times have a sick sense of humor. A couple of years back in Westmoreland County there were two murders committed with frozen poultry. I was telling everyone that if it kept up there soon would be a government health warning on frozen turkey.

Come to think of it being shot might be less painful then being pummeled with a frozen bird.

Eamonn

[Fat Old Guy]

The Beave said, "I'll take a shot pattern of a few inches over a 9mm wide bullet any day if my family's safety is at risk."

 

If you miss, you have nine .36 caliber projectiles ripping through the walls. I have one. :-)

 

The NJ Dude said, " But you can't ignore the part about the 'well-regulated militia.' "

 

Yep, that's right. You and I are both part of that militia.

 

The NJ Dude asked, " I wonder if you have any statistics on how many guns, kept in homes for security, are stolen and used in crimes?"

 

I'm sure that they are around but I don't know what they are. Most guns used in crime are stolen, either from homes, the police, or the military. Not too many years ago, ATF had a big bunch of sub-machine guns stolen in transit. They believe that the theives thought that they were getting computers because they were packed in big white boxes. However, considering how many 10s of millions of guns are leagally owned, the number being used in crime is statistically insignifcant.

 

 

[NJCubScouter]

FOG, I know the statute you are talking about. For those who don't, it is Title 10, Section 311 of the United States Code. I had to mess with the formatting and hopefully it will look ok, but here is what it says:

 

Section 311. Militia: composition and classes

 

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are -

(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

 

First of all, FOG, if you are part of the militia described in section (a), you need to change your account-name as a matter of truth in advertising. I am not part of the "militia" described in this section because I am no longer "under 45 years of age." I'm not over it, either, for the next few weeks anyway, but I'm not under it.

 

In any event, this statute really has nothing to do with the Second Amendment or gun control. Notice that even those of us under age 45 are part of the "unorganized militia," except for those who are actually members of the National Guard. (In which case the upper age limit would not apply, according to the exception referred to above.) Is an "unorganized militia" a "well-regulated militia"? It wouldn't seem so.

 

Plus, I have to say the statute in question is a pretty odd one. Most men between the ages of 17 and (less than) 45 would probably be surprised to learn that they are members of a "militia." Unless and until the statute is actually used with regard to non-National Guard members, I am not sure that it really means anything. Congress could pass a law calling you a hamster, it doesn't make you one.

 

As for the "statistics," what you're basically saying is that you don't know any of the numbers (which I don't either), but yet you are somehow able to call the number "statistically insignificant." I'm not impressed.

[Fat Old Guy]

"FOG, I know the statute you are talking about."

 

Nope. I'm talking about the historic defininition of the militia which was in use when the words were written.

 

"As for the "statistics," what you're basically saying is that you don't know any of the numbers (which I don't either), but yet you are somehow able to call the number "statistically insignificant." I'm not impressed."

 

According to the FBI and ATFE, there are over 200,000,000 guns in the country but at most 9,369 were used to cause the unlawful death of another person in 2002 (FBI Uniform Crime Report). How many were taken from their victims? Dunno.

 

I'm sure that it strikes you as odd that the statistics show that violent crime is dropping dramatically in areas where gun may be carried by citizens.