Where Are We Going Wrong?

[Bob White]

If the local Catholic church wanted to start a choir, would you tell them "no, you can't, because the Baptist church, the Presbyterian church, and almost every junior high and high school already have a choir, and there are only so many people who can sing."

 

Scout units are no different. Any eligible organization that feel they have a youth population of 5 or more that they want to reach using the scouting program has a right to become a Charter Organization, and who are you to say no.

 

Whether or not they have enough adults to do so is their problem. The volunteers of the district committee have a responsibility to assist any Charter Organization to succeed in delivering the program. Unless you have 100% saturation of eligible youth in scouting there is always room for unit growth.

 

Personally, I think to blame sports for any of Scoutings problems is a cop-out. Kids will want to do whatever is most fun an fulfilling for their needs at that stage of their life. If your unit does not offer more gratification than sports then that is a unit problem.

 

The BSA program is designed to offer fitness, physical challenges, recognition, teamwork, fellowship, competition, everything that a young person gets from organized sports. It even promotes belonging to a sports team as part of the advancement opportunities.

 

Sports has been a part of our society as long as scouting has, you need to learn to deal with it not surrender to it.

 

[Fat Old Guy]

dsteele said, " but that they will not advance as quickly and that they should maintain their relationship with the troop."

 

Ah, there's a rub. I've found that the parents of kids whose advancement progressly slowly because of their other activities view that as "punishment" of their kids. Punishment isn't my word, it is the word thrown out by a number of parents at a recent committee meeting.

 

Bob White opinied, "Personally, I think to blame sports for any of Scoutings problems is a cop-out. Kids will want to do whatever is most fun an fulfilling for their needs at that stage of their life. If your unit does not offer more gratification than sports then that is a unit problem."

 

Maybe, maybe not. Maybe it isn't sport per se but it is the sport fixation that our society has and the fixation on winning. Ever listen to a 3rd grade soccer coach yelling at his players to "put their game faces on"? It is pathetic.

 

Also, if a kid wants to play soccer, he can't do that part time anymore. To remain competitive, he has to play spring soccer, summer soccer, fall soccer and indoor soccer. If he skips a season to go camping with the Scouts, he may lose his spot for the next season.

 

The really crazy thing is that parents are willing to put up with it. I know parents who spend their entire lives driving to soccer events. 45 weekends a year are spent driving to soccer tournements. Family life is scheduled around soccer practice and soccer games. Heck, I know one pathetic guy who skipped an aunt's funeral because his son had a soccer game.

 

For many years, our society has held that sports are more important than just about anything else. The President inauguration was delayed because it conflicted with the Super Bowl. Look at the special treatment that college athletes receive. It is sad, it is pathetic but it is life today.

[Fat Old Guy]

"I have to wonder why a small town, where most of the kids go to the same school, would have four packs? To me this seems like a recipe for disaster."

 

I've seen a situation like this. Started with one pack that grew to over 100 Cub Scouts so the pack split.

[fotoscout]

Bob,

 

I also could have written your posting, it is of course accurate, but it doesnt reflect the realities that we see today.

 

We chartered 3 new units in my district last year. All three have folded. In part all three folded because there was an inadequate amount of help provided to these units throughout the year. Its easy to say that the volunteers have a responsibility to support new units, but someone has to have a plan and a commitment before charging off and chartering a new unit. In one case the SM of the new unit had absolutely no idea of the work involved in getting a unit off the ground. This unit was chartered to a relatively small church and they wanted to use it as their youth program. He thought that the church community would come forward and volunteer. You know the rest of the story. Then he tried to recruit outside his church community and ran into, shall I say stiff opposition, from the other nearby Troops.

Everyone had good intentions, but destiny was controlled by the reality of the situation.

 

Sports a cop-out

 

Ummmm, food for thought.

Given the level of involvement that our youth had in sports back in the 1960s I would agree with you. But not today. Many threads in this forum talk about kids who miss the baseball season or the football season, but attend their scout functions during the rest of the year. Thats dealing with it! However how do deal with a kid who is playing soccer, or baseball or any sport, year round? How do you retain a kid who simply doesnt understand that there are other things in life beyond sports? Bob, sports have had a huge impact on us.

 

FOG you beat me to it. Pathetic yes!! But I must admit that I am one of those 3rd grade soccer coaches, but my story is a little different. I have parents begging to be on my team. We dont win very much, but the kids learn the game, and they have fun with a purpose. Unlike the win at all cost teams I dont usually get a great turnout for practice, but every boy shows up for every game and every kid plays equally in each game. This is just the opposite of the win at all cost teams.

 

[dsteele]

Fotoscout -- You didn't anger the professionals. Actually the over-saturation argument comes up so frequently that a professional with any kind of tenure has gotten used to it, and proceeds anyway.

 

Whoever pointed out that McDonalds is closing some restaurants, has me on that one. They are. However, if the BSA had the kind of market saturation that McDonalds has, we'd be closing units.

 

The fact is that we don't. Average market share for Cub Scouts hovers around 30% of the available boys (I don't have an Index of Growth here, but if I did it would tell us exactly what that median market share is for 2002.) That means that across the country 70% or so are not being reached by existing units.

 

In the Boy Scout program, average market share is around 20% (actually, it may be lower than that) and we aren't serving 80% of Scout age boys with existing units.

 

With Venturing, the average is less than 3% served. Actually, to say we serve 3% of the Venturing age group is a big stretch, but I don't have the chart in front of me.

 

I agree that we need to get the word out to our target audience, but I don't think getting on the front page of the paper is going to help us. Word of mouth is the best way to do it. How do we do that? If I knew the answer, I'd be the Chief Scout Executive tomorrow and that isn't going to happen.

 

We get the word out when someone convinces someone else to join the Boy Scouts of America. We get the word out when it hits the streets that there's a new troop in town or that just because Jimmy didn't like the troop at the Methodist Church, he doesn't have to quit Scouting. There's a great troop on the next block at the Presbyterian Church starting up . . .

 

For example, I just about got ridden out of town on a rail in a small town in Michigan. It had been a one troop town for a long time. The troop membership in this town was 15-22 boys. A group of parents who's sons were graduating Webelos decided they didn't like the one troop in town. With no coaching from me (I would have coached them, but didn't know the situation until they came to me) decided they wanted to start another troop in town.

 

The Scoutmaster and troop committee of the existing troop beat me like a puppy trying to get me to stop their effort to start a second troop in town. They said that if there were two troops in town, their troop would die -- or they would fall to 7-10 members and the new troop would only have five.

 

A year later -- the old troop had 15 members. The new troop had 30 some. So there were now 45-55 Boy Scouts in town when there had only been 15-22.

 

And still the town was only serving 15% of the available Boy Scout age boys.

 

DS

[acco40]

In the past, more organizations such as Elks, Kiwanis, Moose, etc. were COs for units. Society was more community based. Now the predominant COs are Catholic, LDS, and other denominational religious organizations. Where is the BSA marketing itself? My opinion is it is marketing itself to non-demoninational Christian audiences. The "church of the outdoors" from the past is being replaced with organized religion. The tolerance and fairness of the past is being replaced by "no avowed homosexual leaders." Regardless if you think it should or should not go in this direction, it is not a recipe for growth.

 

The BSA needs a new marketing strategy. What does it provide our youth? How does it do it? Most of the population either views it as a "camping club", "craft activity", "fundamentalist organization living in the past" or other such tripe. It is none of those. It is an excellent program for teaching citizenship, mental and physical fitness and ethics. It needs to promote that much better than it has.

[Bob White]

Here is the problem with the CO mix you pointed to ACCO. American Legions, VFWS, Knights of Columbus, Moose, lose more members everyday to death and attrition than they gain. Their memberships are so low that they cannot generate enough money to maintain their halls and they are either closing or moving to such small locations that they can no longer house a scouting unit. They are at the moment a risky partner for long-term maintenance of scouting units.

 

By the way the Chartering organization with the most members is the United Methodist Men's Club, Not the LDS or Catholic Churches.

 

Schools are becoming more difficult to deal with. What better place to look for sponsors of a value based, family centered, youth activity, than religious organizations?

 

McDonalds closed some full service restaurants last year not due to saturation but a down turn in sales related to health concerns among their customer base. Downsizing is a temporary business fix it is not a long-range plan to have if you expect to survive. Along with down sizing they adjusted the menu, employed a new marketing plan, and opened non-traditional stores connected to kwiki-marts and discount stores.

 

In other words, they took steps to not waste existing funds, regrouped, and went back on a growth plan, not unlike what a BSA council would do responding to a similar situation.

 

Look back at your own post as to why your soccer team is so popular. You don't think that same thing hold true for scout units?

 

You think today kids are more enamored by sports than in the past? I'm quite sure there are others here my age or older who remember wanting to be, Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays, Ron Santo, Bobby Hull, Bart Starr, Johnny Unitas, Bob Richards (The guy on the Wheaties Box).

 

I'm sorry, to blame sports is just looking for an excuse so that you don't have to deal with the quality of your own program. I know that's going to upset some folks and I'm sorry, but if you want to get scout aged youth to participate you had better plan to be the "best show in town" because that is where they want to spend their time.

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Laurie]

We cover an entire school district with one pack and one troop. The pack is where I have my primary registration, so this thread intrigued me and led me to check out some numbers to see just what we are tackling as far as numbers. I'm going to start a new thread with them, and I'd like to play "Recruiter" using what I have. How do we reach so many unreached boys?

 

That said, I'm not sure we are doing anything wrong. I sincerely believe that the program, when done as the BSA lays it out, will attract and keep boys. I also believe we need to be sensitive enough to all the other things boys are involved in to avoid the "attend or else you miss out" trap. They will know that already--that they're missing out if the program is working. I have learned that many sports directors don't allow boys to enroll in ANYTHING else when they are in season, and out-of-season, sports practice and clinics keep going on. When I was in band front as Color Guard about 20+ years ago, we were not allowed--school policy--to do anything but that. Therefore, I quit playing an instrument and did not play field hockey though the coach tried to recruit me. It was expected that one would devote him/herself to whatever activity he/she participated in. How sorry I am that I could not do more now! Therefore, we enrolled our children in private school, where the pressure is only as great as the parents and/or student choose, but where a child can do more than one thing. We don't agree with the intense pressure put on children to master sports--or anything--so early. Just as there is criticism for parents/schools pushing too hard for boys to stick with a particular sport (scholarships is a big issue in this area--and a fair one IMO), we get criticized for not pushing our boys to grow up faster.

 

I said I wasn't sure we are doing anything wrong. Now let me add: I wonder if we can do more that is right, and actively recruit to get those who we are missing to check out the program. In the past year, I've seen only one boy in each the pack and the troop, pay a visit then decide against joining. That's good, I think. Not all will stay. The big question, as DSteele pointed out, is HOW to accomplish this.

[Fat Old Guy]

"When I was in band front as Color Guard about 20+ years ago, we were not allowed--school policy--to do anything but that."

 

Was that only during football season or for the whole school year?

 

Back when I was in High School, it was a policy, a hard and fast rule, of the State sports regulating agency that if you played a high school sport, you could not play that sport for any other organization during the school season. In other words, if you played basketball for your school from DEcember through February, you couldn't play for your church or the YMCA during those months. THe idea was that if you were injured in a CYO game, it would be unfair to your school.

 

 

[Laurie]

FOG, good question--one that will show my age! I forget all details, but if one did not play an instrument during football season (marching band season), then one was not allowed to play at any time. And since taking part in Color Guard eliminated playing an instrument, it was Color Guard for football season and no band at all. Band rules were tough, and IMO way too tough. Try-outs for the new marching band season were during field hockey season (I could see the girls practicing while I was drilling), so that much I do recall. Had I gone with sports, I'd have been encouraged to play several, but only if, and I quote our coaches, I had the "killer instinct". Some things really don't change, they just begin at younger ages, hm?

[acco40]

Bob, I was not advocating that the Lions, Elks, Kiwanis, etc. sponsor more units. I was just stating that in the past, community Scout houses, usually maintained by organizations such as these flourished. You are correct. These organizations, like Scouting itself, are community based and dying out. Now, it seems people want to join organizations that are "exclusive" and I don't mean that in a negative way. "Select" soccer teams are a good example. Organizations that take anyone (well almost anyone) like Scouting have no panache. What did Rodney Dangerfield once say, "I wouldn't join any organization that would have me as a member."

 

I have no problems with Methodists, LDS, or Catholic institutions chartering Scouting units. Heck, the units I belong to are sponsored by a Catholic Church, a Presbyterian Church and an Episcopalian Church. In my neck of the woods the COs are also very "hands-off." I would just like to see the BSA market more to the mainstream. I firmly believe the "three Gs" issues have hurt funding and membership. While I don't think membership growth should be the holy grail of Scouting (sometimes I think Irving does), the BSA should do a better job representing the aims of Scouting to the public. I think the "traditional values" marketing is horrible. Traditional values, family values, etc., those terms have just as much negative connotation as positive in some circles. They are just pablum to me. They have no real weight and just sound like "feel good" to me. It should be marketing the three pillars of citizenship, character as well as mental and physical fitness. I try and teach the Scouts in our unit to have values and character, not directly what those values should be. Granted, they will observe my actions and make judgements on values based on my behavior but the actual teaching of what is right and wrong is the job of his family, not his Scout leader. In short, I may ask him to "do the right thing" but only his family can tell him what the right thing is.(This message has been edited by acco40)

[Eamonn]

Pam our DE were planning our meeting with the high school, as ever we were chatting on the phone. I was having a hard time with the planned meeting as my heart was not in what we were doing. As we chatted I said that I was feeling a bit like a Kirby Sweeper salesman, only I didn't know which pitch that I ought to use. I went on to say how it felt kind of odd making a sales call for Scouting. I somehow had always viewed Scouting as something that everyone wanted to do and the very idea of having to make a pitch was alien to me. Pam said that the pros, spent a lot of time learning the pitch and how to make it.

Looking back over the years I suppose that I have done my fair share of "Sales calls" I just never viewed it that way. In a way I felt bad that my warm and fuzzy organization was in some ways not the same. I was now out there trying to make a sale.

Maybe I am just naive but how did it come to this? As a kid I looked forward to all the fun that we were having and going to have. As a leader I took pride in being a part of the fun the Scouts were having. I watched them grow, we shared more then just Scout meetings we shared our very being. There is so much to be said about knowing a group of Lads who you know are not going to let you or themselves down. Then all of a sudden it comes down to a sales pitch. Yes maybe I am naive.

Yet I remember earlier this year meeting with a church who wanted to start a pack. They were a little startled when I said that the last thing that we were going to do was recruit boys. Working with the Minister we recruited a bunch of adults, we put on several training's for them and then with the help of the church newsletter and a the District Membership Chair addressing the congregation we managed to recruit nine young Lads. They now have sixteen and are a pack that is well on their way. Maybe there is a pitch in there someplace? Maybe I just had my heart in that one?

Eamonn

[dsteele]

Sales pitches, dear Eamonn, are only a bad thing when you're sold something you don't want and don't need.

 

I felt the same way about the Kirby Sweeper (souped up vacuum cleaner to those who speak the west side of the pond English.) When I found out the price for the Kirby was $1,200 I told the salesman that I'd better be able to drive it to the office for that price. He asked if we wanted financing plan A or B. I told him I wanted plan C -- which was, "Pack up your machine and get the heck out of my house!"

 

My wife pulled me into the other room. She had wanted a Kirby for many years and couldn't find someone to sell her one.

 

Turns out it's a very fine sweeper, and, if properly motivated, it can give a decent ride to a little guy like me

 

My point is that if the customer is in need, and the salesman is sincere, a sales pitch is not a bad thing.

 

Conversely, when my phone service got "slammed" into another long-distance provider when I explicitly said, "NO!" to the salesman, something criminal had been done -- but that wasn't a sales pitch.

 

At the end of a "pitch" the buyer can say "no" and make it stick. What you're doing is a pitch, but that's not a bad thing. I'm sure you'll know that "no" means "no" and that "yes" means "bring it on!"

 

Dave

[Laurie]

Oh Eamonn, I hear you. Recruiting seems to have a negative meaning. Think of recruiting or making a pitch as simply an invitation. After all, that is what it is. For me, getting past that numbers issue was tough. After all, what is the purpose? Why do we need big numbers in the unit? Well, I'm not sure we do. The better question may be, are we getting the word out to the boys that there is this very cool program that is tons of fun? Over and over again we hear, "I had no idea we had Cubs in this area", and so somehow, in spite of hundreds of fliers being sent to each school, in spite of our cable TV ad this year, in spite of word of mouth invitations--somehow the word is still not out that we are here. I believe in the program, and from all you say, so do you. As you talk about it, invite others to join it, encourage the boys and leaders to invite others out--you are inviting them to something you value and think will benefit them. Sales pitch? Maybe. But I can't think of anything better to sell than a program defined as "fun with a purpose", that encourages families, that gives many opportunities to boys to try new things, that is always praising boys, that is good for the community, that is worth far more than any dollar amount that could ever be assigned to it. I consider it an investment; with each invitation I issue, I am helping to invest in local families, the community, and our country as together we help boys to grow into the very best they can be. In fact, I believe in this all so much that I made my 4th successful adult recruit this week. Did I sell it, make a pitch? Yep, I sure did. But it was the purpose of the program and the program seen at work that won over a person who previously felt it would be a waste of his time. Keep up the good work you do Eamonn. You must be such a help to your DE and to all in your district.

[evmori]

When I was growing up in the 60's sports has seasons. And they were less organized at the youth level. I spent many a day and night at the ball field playing pick-up games of baseball, basketball, football, etc. There was more time for youth to be active in other things. Today, the seasonality of sports has started to slip. My daughter play HS basketball & she plays all year. The same goes for soccer & other sports. And the organized sports now start at 3rd grade! So there is less time for kids to be involved in other activities.

 

Whether you think it is a cop-out or not Bob, it is reality. Open your eye, man!

 

Ed Mori

A blessed Christmas to all!

1 Peter 4:10