Where Are We Going Wrong?

[Eamonn]

While I agree with Bob White that training is very important and I have been trying for some time to explain to the powers that be in our council that retention is more then half the battle when it comes to membership. However when it comes to Tiger Cubs there is no retention, we start fresh every year.

I often wonder if part of the problem is that many of the leaders are not passing on the information about some of what is out there. I live in a small town with four packs in it. Most of the Cub Scouts attend the same elementary school and while as can be found everywhere there are some families that are more affluent then others, there is not one pack that has all the rich kids or one that has all the poor kids. Still there is one pack that never joins in any of the district or council activities. Talk to the leaders and they will say that the kids can't afford it. The pack less then half a mile down the road is three times the size and never misses a thing. These Cub Scouts are busy all the time.

This is not anything new they have always been like that at least as long as I have been around. It would be ok to say it's the leaders but this active pack has seen four Cubmasters that I have known.(They move up through the program with their son.) As a District we can't make anyone do anything, we do encourge and promote but at times I feel that it is falling on deaf ears. Even direct mailings to the families don't work as long as the leaders are not with us.

In our troops we have troops that are happy to attend the Council summer camp year after year. They even sign up for the same site while they are at camp for the next year. When I talk to them about a high adventure program again all I hear is how expensive it is.

It seems that we are unwilling or maybe even scared to offer these Scouts any activity that is deemed to be "Too Expensive".

If this is going to be the trend maybe as a district we will have to start to offer activities on a district level and meeting with the parents at some sort of a rally or meeting.

Eamonn

[Eamonn]

While I agree with Bob White that training is very important and I have been trying for some time to explain to the powers that be in our council that retention is more then half the battle when it comes to membership. However when it comes to Tiger Cubs there is no retention, we start fresh every year.

I often wonder if part of the problem is that many of the leaders are not passing on the information about some of what is out there. I live in a small town with four packs in it. Most of the Cub Scouts attend the same elementary school and while as can be found everywhere there are some families that are more affluent then others, there is not one pack that has all the rich kids or one that has all the poor kids. Still there is one pack that never joins in any of the district or council activities. Talk to the leaders and they will say that the kids can't afford it. The pack less then half a mile down the road is three times the size and never misses a thing. These Cub Scouts are busy all the time.

This is not anything new they have always been like that at least as long as I have been around. It would be ok to say it's the leaders but this active pack has seen four Cubmasters that I have known.(They move up through the program with their son.) As a District we can't make anyone do anything, we do encourge and promote but at times I feel that it is falling on deaf ears. Even direct mailings to the families don't work as long as the leaders are not with us.

In our troops we have troops that are happy to attend the Council summer camp year after year. They even sign up for the same site while they are at camp for the next year. When I talk to them about a high adventure program again all I hear is how expensive it is.

It seems that we are unwilling or maybe even scared to offer these Scouts any activity that is deemed to be "Too Expensive".

If this is going to be the trend maybe as a district we will have to start to offer activities on a district level and meeting with the parents at some sort of a rally or meeting.

Eamonn

[fotoscout]

Where did we go wrong? I think we are going wrong in many different areas.

 

- Too much freedom to develop a program of your own, instead of a simple set of rules that state specifically what you should be doing with your den, pack, or troop.

- Not enough thrust to train new leaders before they get into bad habits.

- Too much of the wrong PR which has allowed the public to think that BSA is attached to the religious right.

- A failure to recognize the overwhelming popularity of youth sports today.

- The lack of a national program aimed at building the relationship between Council and Unit.

 

Council provided us with a fact sheet outlining the reasons why boys leave scouting. To everyones surprise, sports was low on the list. Personally I dont believe it. I think that sports are (is) the #2 reason why boys leave the program. I believe that the #1cause is the lack of an exciting program, and surprise surprise that was also the #1 reason on the outline we were given by Council.

 

FOG is correct when he says that the sports just keep rolling on. I have boys playing soccer thru 4 seasons, lacrosse thru 2 seasons, and, baseball thru 2 seasons. The coaches demand that boys be at practice and at games. By the way these kids are 8-9 years old. Some of these boys simply dont see scouts as doing anything because they are not engaged in something that involves running, kicking, and throwing for 1 hours. On the other hand when we have outings these kids are the ones that are most captivated by the outing. Unfortunately they are also the same ones that miss most of the outings because they are playing some sport.

 

The whole youth sports thing is a pet peeve of mine, I think that we are damaging a whole generation or two of American youth with this sports craze. Dont get me wrong, Im not anti sports, I just believe that it is very out of control.

 

So thats my two cents

(This message has been edited by fotoscout)

[Fat Old Guy]

" When I talk to them about a high adventure program again all I hear is how expensive it is."

 

That's why a troop runs fundraising activities but they probably don't want to hear that.

 

OGE said, "The Scout FOG mentions is most likley not from a Troop with artificial attendance barriers."

 

Actually, he is. The troop requires attendance at 50% of troop meetings, 50% of outings to be considered active.

[eisely]

Entrants into the Cub Scout program were down in our council and the entire Western Region. This is a critical concern. Competing youth activities such as sports are probably the biggest single factor.

[Fat Old Guy]

"Looking at where we failed the Tiger program is starting to stick out like a sore thumb. We only recruited half the number that we did three years ago.Again I don't know why the decline?"

 

In my son's five years in Cub Scouting (including Tigers), only twice wat the Tiger Den numerically strong. We've actually had kids drop as Tigers and come back for Wolves.

 

I didnt' think much of the Tiger program. Maybe it was the way that the Leader (Coach) ran things. She passed out a schedule in September and never bothered to remind people that they were supposed to be doing the December or May activity. Consequently, most people forgot that they were supposed to do stuff (myself included).

 

Also the activities weren't that engaging, at least to my son because it seemed like every recommended activity was something had been done to death. Go to the zoo? That was done with the family, church and school. Go to the airport? He'd been to major airshows almost every year since birth (Hint: infants don't like afterburners. find a seat way in the back).

[OldGreyEagle]

"OGE said, "The Scout FOG mentions is most likley not from a Troop with artificial attendance barriers."

 

Actually, he is. The troop requires attendance at 50% of troop meetings, 50% of outings to be considered active. "

 

 

Well, there are days when I just know I shoulda stood in bed

 

[fotoscout]

Eamonn,

 

I live in a small town with four packs in it. Most of the Cub Scouts attend the same elementary school.

 

I have to wonder why a small town, where most of the kids go to the same school, would have four packs? To me this seems like a recipe for disaster. It seems clear that the limited resource of quality volunteers has been diluted and now the program is suffering.

 

Having asked the question maybe I can answer it. Professionals need to startup new units as a feather in their caps. Very simple formula, start new units, do good work, get promotion and more pay. Very honorable on the part of the professional, hes just doing his job. Unfortunately the down side is this dilution of the volunteer resources and the weakening of existing units.

 

[acco40]

Scouting is no longer view as politically centrist but leaning toward the right. Bad news if the real focus is growth.

[purcelce]

 

"Having asked the question maybe I can answer it. Professionals need to startup new units as a feather in their caps. Very simple formula, start new units, do good work, get promotion and more pay. Very honorable on the part of the professional, hes just doing his job. Unfortunately the down side is this dilution of the volunteer resources and the weakening of existing units. "

 

Very interesting....

 

 

[RobK]

How about making the focus not "growth" (raw numbers of youth served) but "retention" (youth served well through out their youth). And retention should not be seen as "made eagle before he quit", but "actively particpated until he aged out".

 

I think the organization is trying to do too much, trying to be all things to all people and so serve everyone, and so spreading itself too thin.

 

We need to focus on the core competency.

[fotoscout]

Bad news regardless of what the focus is. Scouting in the United States will not survive in its current form if it is not a centrist organization.

[dsteele]

Fotoscout said, "Having asked the question maybe I can answer it. Professionals need to startup new units as a feather in their caps. Very simple formula, start new units, do good work, get promotion and more pay. Very honorable on the part of the professional, hes just doing his job. Unfortunately the down side is this dilution of the volunteer resources and the weakening of existing units."

 

Mostly true, but there are some flaws in the logic. I point this out, not of anger, but because people need to know it.

 

1) For professionals, starting new units is more than a feather in their cap. It is a job requirement. Failure to do so will result in termination eventually. There are reasons for this, which I will outline below:

 

fact: average unit size in the BSA has not changed significantly in the past 40 years. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but know this to be true for at least the past 15 years.

 

fact: If there is to be sustained membership growth in a given community, there must be growth in units. Again from experience and mathematics.

 

fact from experience: Units that don't draw kids die. Every unit has its own personality and not every kid who likes Scouts likes the way every unit does things or every kid in every unit. So give them choices.

 

example: McDonald's figured out a long time ago that if you want to sell more hamburgers, you build more restaurants. Nevermind how close to each other they are. People will buy a cheesburger when they are hungry . . . if it is convenient to them and to their taste.

 

The more units you have in a given area, the more Scouts you will have. Some units will be small, some units will be large. Some kids prefer the 7 boy Scout troop (not many, obviously, but some) and will shie away from the unit with 56 active Scouts. If the 7 kid unit is not available, we lose them altogether.

 

Yes, I think sports play a factor, but we as Scout leaders need to explain to the parents and the Scout that they can participate in the sports program and should as much as they want to, but that they will not advance as quickly and that they should maintain their relationship with the troop. In other words, touch base when you're busy, do what you can, but don't expect to just "get" your Eagle because you were registered.

 

The above paragraph is kind of inversly personal to me. I had no involvement in sports during my Boy Scout age years -- hated them in fact. The only place in the world I felt at home is the BSA. Strangely that has not changed. Most of the kids that earned Eagle at the age of 15-18 were also involved in other stuff and were more well rounded (although I could quote Shakespeare and they could not ) However, I was a 13 year old Scouting Geek and they were well-rounded teen-agers who earned Eagle . . . so there's a tradeoff there.

 

My vote is to do what we can to allow Scouting to be a part of a well-rounded teen's life and not the center of it. It would be nice if it were centered, but in the meantime, sports can be a wonderful supplement to Scouting.

 

Somewhere in this post my logic got twisted like an over-the-shoulder seat belt, but I hope you know what I mean.

 

DS

[fotoscout]

I had no intent to anger the professionals, my apologies if any of you felt slighted. Dave I think you know that!

For the record McDonalds closed restaurants this year, I think for the first time. Why, because the area was saturated. Dave, what you described seems to border on a pyramid scheme. There simply is not an endless supply of interested kids and adults to sustain new unit growth AND existing unit health. More importantly, in my opinion, there are not enough adults willing to make the commitment necessary to build a quality program in these new units.

 

 

[bt01]

I may be preaching to the chorus but how do we get the programs to the kids who do not know about it??? The only time the boy scouts make it to the front page of the local paper is when we are doing some thing like scouting for food.