Bisexuality...

[dsteele]

NJ --

 

I have a deep and abiding respect for you. It sounds like it surely must be a legal term, but I'm not a lawyer and have no knowledge of the law.

 

Regardless, I have a deep and abiding respect for you because you are what you say you are and you stick to your guns.

 

However, and this is nothing against you, the membership standards of the Boy Scouts of America are what they are. Period. End of report.

 

You can debate what they "should be" until the cows come home and after. They will not change because of discourse on these boards.

 

I still love ya, dude, but they is what they is and I get paid to enfore them.

 

 

DS

[Fat Old Guy]

"You'd think one of them would post that every once in awhile"

 

You might but I wouldn't because they don't come here.

 

"The argument is about what the membership standards should be"

 

The membership standards should be whatever the organization says that they should be.

 

[Hunt]

I've go to disagree with the last statement--that an organization's membership standards should be whatever that group wants them to be. I don't really think you believe that--in this case you strongly agree with the standards. But surely you don't think it's unreasonable to criticize the membership standards of even a private organization if they are manifestly unfair? I'm not even arguing about whether BSA's standards are fair or not--I just don't think they are immune from criticism just because they're private, or even because nothing I say can influence them. I have ideas about what's right and wrong--for example, I think the Pope is wrong for opposing birth control--and I'm not really impressed by a response that he's the Pope and I'm a nobody.

[OldGreyEagle]

Just to be accurate, the Pope/The Catholic Church does not oppose birth control, only artificial means there of meaning natural methods are OK (IE Rhythm)

 

It might also be worthy of note that although the Pope, and his predecessors all have spoken out against artificial birth control, no pronouncement against artificial birth control has been made

 

"Ex Cathedra"

 

[NJCubScouter]

DG, I understand what you are saying. I have respect for you as well. As far as you enforcing the rules, I wouldn't expect you to do anything else. But rules can change. The people who make the rules can change. I don't expect it to happen tomorrow and I certainly don't expect the discussions in this forum to have any immediate impact on changing them. But I do think it is going to happen eventually, and then I suspect you will just as vigorously enforce the rules at that time.

 

In the meantime, what the policies and rules of the BSA should be remains a perfectly legitimate area of discussion in this forum -- in "Issues and Politics" -- at least for as long as Scouter Terry continues to put up with us.

[NJCubScouter]

I meant DS, not DG. Oh but to be able to edit my posts. You probably don't want to hear this, DS, but I think I was thinking of writing a response to FOG and I combined DS and FOG and got DG. I'll try not to let it happen again.

[NJCubScouter]

I meant DS, not DG. Oh but to be able to edit my posts. You probably don't want to hear this, DS, but I think I was thinking of writing a response to FOG and I combined DS and FOG and got DG. I'll try not to let it happen again.

[Fat Old Guy]

" But surely you don't think it's unreasonable to criticize the membership standards of even a private organization if they are manifestly unfair?"

 

Why? It's their organization and they can set whatever standard that they want. If I really don't like it, I can form my own organization.

 

" I'm not really impressed by a response that he's the Pope and I'm a nobody."

 

That's the way that it is. He is the Pope, elected by the College of Cardinals and you are . . . maybe not a nobody but not someone whose opinion carries any weight.

[Hunt]

I just don't understand the double standard some posters have here. When BSA has a policy they agree with, we're told that BSA is a private organization that can set its own rules, and everybody else can be quiet or leave. But when BSA has a policy they don't like, such as allegedly dumbing down the program to make it easier to make First Class in the First Year, it's a different story. I just think all these issues can be discussed on their merits. Although the powers that be in BSA may not read forums like this, there may be somebody reading this who will one day be one of the powers that be, and his or her thinking may well be influenced by reasoned discussions here.

[NJCubScouter]

Hunt:

 

Many double apostrophes (which looks suspiciously like mega-dittos.)

 

FOG:

 

When you write the "gay issue," you refer to the BSA as "they," and "their organization." I don't think of the BSA as a "they," I think of it as "we." Not that I speak for it, or have a vote in it, but just that I am part of it, it is "our" organization. To me, the BSA is not some "they" out there.

 

 

[NJCubScouter]

I mean, when you write about the gay issue. Yeesh.

[scoutingagain]

FOG,

You said..

 

"Why? It's their organization and they can set whatever standard that they want. If I really don't like it, I can form my own organization."

 

"That's the way that it is. He is the Pope, elected by the College of Cardinals and you are . . . maybe not a nobody but not someone whose opinion carries any weight. "

 

 

Are we to infer from the above the appropriate response to a policy that one disagreed with, of an organization one was a member of, would be to simply quit and find or found an organization more aligned with ones own opinions?

 

That we should all march in lock step unison with any organization we choose to be associated with? That there is no room for debate or change from within?

 

I assume we would not expect see a post where you expressed disagreement with an organization you were associated with.

 

SA

 

 

 

 

 

[Rooster7]

I have ideas about what's right and wrong--for example, I think the Pope is wrong for opposing birth control--and I'm not really impressed by a response that he's the Pope and I'm a nobody.

 

I can understand not accepting "I'm a nobody." That's not part of your faith to accept that teaching. However, if you're claiming to be a Catholic (with the big "C"), then "he's the Pope" should impress you. Catholics claim that the Pope's wisdom concerning the church is divinely guided. In other words, he has God's ear for the explicit purpose of guiding the church in the proper direction.

 

If you're not a Catholic, then I understand your reluctance to accept the Pope's guidance. If you're a Catholic, then you should ponder why you believe as you do. Or, are you indicating that the Pope's judgment in these matters is not inerrant? If so, then you must also be indicating that the Catholic teaching, that the Pope is given divine wisdom regarding matters of the church, is wrong. Which begs the question; if you believe these things, why embrace the Catholic faith? Just asking...

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Rooster, I know you were raised Catholic, can you explain what Ex Cathedra means?

[Fat Old Guy]

NJCubDude said, "I don't think of the BSA as a 'they,' I think of it as 'we.' "

 

It isn't that way if you accepts the teaching of Bob White.

 

"Are we to infer from the above the appropriate response to a policy that one disagreed with, of an organization one was a member of, would be to simply quit and find or found an organization more aligned with ones own opinions?"

 

If the disagreement is significant enough, yep. I don't like the quality of the current BSA uniform but that isn't enough to make me quit. On the other hand, I took a stand when the Smithsonian tried to paint the US as the villian in WW II, so I dropped my membership and let them know why.