Misuse of the Program

[Bob White]

Perhaps if you made that decision they would be, however do you know of any chapters of any of the organizations you mentioned who are actually Charter Organizations in the BSA?

[NJCubScouter]

FOG asks me if I have:

 

ever heard of "morally straight"?

 

Uh, yeah. Of course, one need not be "straight" in his sexual orientation to be "morally straight."

 

By the way, Umpire Bob is blind.

 

I haven't seen his vision test results. However, I do notice that you two see "eye to eye" on the exclusion of gays from the BSA. (I am so funny.)

 

Also, while I have been staying out of the "BSA as religious organization" debate, I can't help commenting on this:

 

Based on this statement alone, the KKK, Black Panthers and the IRA would be good Charter Partners.

 

Fortunately, the BSA does not look at one statement alone when seeking or accepting chartering organizations. The BSA also looks at the Scout Oath and Law (which, in fact, are referred to in the quoted statement in the national charter as "kindred virtues.")

 

I think it's clear that the teachings of the groups mentioned are not consistent with all of the values expressed in the Scout Law.

 

Friendly?

Courteous?

Obedient?

 

That last one is the biggest issue, in my opinion. I believe the Scout handbook still says in the explanation of "Obedient": "If he feels that these laws are wrong, he attempts to change them rather than simply to disobey." I am pretty sure that all three of these groups believe, as part of their philosophy, that violence is an acceptable means of achieving governmental and social change.

 

That might lead to the question as to whether, if Scouting had existed in 1776, John Adams, George Washington and Thomas Jefferson would have been acceptable as Scoutmasters, since they were revolutionaries fighting to overthrow a legally established government. But that would be another thread.

[Fat Old Guy]

"however do you know of any chapters of any of the organizations you mentioned who are actually Charter Organizations in the BSA?"

 

A better question is, "have any of chapters of these organizations ever applied to be a Charter Organization and what was the result?"

 

 

[Bob White]

An even better question is, unless you know of such an organization that is a Scouting Charter Organization why does it matter if any have applied or not? Anyone can apply, what matters is who is accepted.

 

And

 

If any applied, unless anyone knows that such an organization is CO, we can presume that the answer from the BSA was "no".

 

Bob White

[Fat Old Guy]

Gee Bob White, "presume"? Aren't the same fellow who slams people for speaking without definate knowledge.

 

It seems that you can't answer my questions so you dodge the issue by trying to redirect it? Answer the question without "presuming" anything, please.

 

 

[Bob White]

Unless you have worked in the nation registrars office since 1916 how could anyone possibly know if anyone from those organizations have "ever" applied. You have asked a ridiculous, unanswerable question.

 

And you dodged mine completly.

 

Bob White

[Fat Old Guy]

"And you dodged mine completly."

 

I learned from you.

[Bob White]

Anyone who believes that FOG has learned anything from anyone on this or any other forum please raise your hand...Yes sir, we see you... is there anyone else? Please put your hand down sir.

 

BW

[evmori]

"You have asked a ridiculous, unanswerable question."

 

Don't know if this is a true statement. Does anyone know if National keeps these kind of records? One would think they would in case of a lawsuit.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Fat Old Guy]

Once again Bob White demonstrates that his Scout Law includes snide.

 

 

[Bob White]

Nice try FOG. What my Scout Law includes is A Scout is Brave. I am not afraid of your bullying. You have no place to lecture anyone on this board regarding manners with the slew of insults you hurl at scouts, scouters, parents and others. I challenge any poster to find 6 positive statements you have shared in the last week.

 

You are not here to help anyone least of youth.

It's not that I want you to quit posting, your lack of substance enhances everyone else's posts. But that does not give you carte blanche to say want you want unchallenged.

 

If the legacy you wish for is as resident muckraker and lay about, you have fulfilled your destiny. Congratulations.

 

Bob white

 

[Fat Old Guy]

"Nice try FOG"

 

Once again, Bob White shows that the Courteous part of the Scout Law doesn't apply to him.

 

"What my Scout Law includes is A Scout is Brave"

 

Would anyone who thinks that Bob White's snideness shows bravery please raise their hand. Hmmmmmmmm . . . not a hand to be seen.

[OldGreyEagle]

Gee FOG, You must have missed me jumping up and down in the back of the room waving both arms.

 

There are very few times Bob White posts a simple declarative sentence that you don't try to refute or at least obfuscate. Yet Bob, for the most part, issues a civil rebuttal which you answer until at times the original intent of the thread is unrecognizable. I can't imagine why anyone would take the abuse Bob does unless its because he has a very deep passion for Scouting and I can do nothing but respect it.

 

Everytime he posts here he risks attack, yeah, I would say he is very brave!

 

(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[Hunt]

I did an Internet search to see if I could find any evidence that the Klan or the Black Panthers ever sponsored or sought to sponsor a Boy Scout troop. The closest hit was a record of cash donations by a Klan group to a troop fundraiser many years ago. I don't consider it inconceivable that in the past, especially in the South, that a troop might have been sponsored by some organization that was racist--but I certainly find it inconceivable that such a relationship would exist today.

[NJCubScouter]

I don't consider it inconceivable that in the past, especially in the South, that a troop might have been sponsored by some organization that was racist--but I certainly find it inconceivable that such a relationship would exist today.

 

Hunt, I was thinking the same thing. Maybe I should have mentioned it in my earlier post, but I was really dealing only with today. While it seems doubtful that the KKK itself would have been a CO at any point, other segregationist organizations may well have been. It should be kept in mind that up to a certain point during the civil rights era, there were officially-sanctioned whites-only BSA units in the South. (I have read different accounts as to when that point occurred, but the late 60's seems to be the best-supported "date.") So it is conceivable that one or more segregationist groups may been involved.

 

As you say, Hunt, that was then, and this is now. Contrary to what some people seem to think, the BSA does sometimes change to reflect changes in society -- when those changes are positive. It is the current failure to reflect one positive change -- or even to allow for local decisions to do so -- that has created a lot of controversy. (Notice I didn't say the word... I'm not hijacking the thread any more than it has been.)