Misuse of the Program

[Bob White]

The individuals would have the option to not participate.

 

There was a Harris poll two years ago that had the statistics showing a boy with 4 years of scouting was far more likely to attend college and to complete a degree than a boy who had not been a scout.

 

Your Council probably still has a complete copy of the poll results. You might also try the national website.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[dsteele]

Boy Scouts in uniform going door-to-door prostletizing (sp butchured) for their chartered organization? There's nothing that says they can't from the BSA end, but I've never encountered it. In fact, the churches that do that may well have Boy Scouts doing it, but they're smart enough to put the boys in white shirts and neckties in order to make sure the boys are recruiting for their religion and not the Boy Scouts of America.

 

I have seen and led Scouts in uniform around neighborhoods trying to recruit families into the troop. Not because of the chartered organization, but in order to grow the membership of the troop. The uniform promotes the BSA.

 

There are some chartered organizations that admit only members of their particular religious institution to join their Scouting units. They have that right. My usual response is to start another "open" unit in a nearby area.

 

Yes, a non LDS boy who joins an LDS troop (Latter Day Saints) is going to be exposed to the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ and the Latter Day Saints. They have Boy Scout Troops as part of their Aarronic Priesthood, which every young man goes through. The ideals of the Church mesh very well with the ideals of the Boy Scouts of America. They may accept non-LDS members, but the non-LDS members need to listen to the church teachings or choose to participate in another troop.

 

None of the above is a mis-use of the Scouting program.

 

DS

[Fat Old Guy]

Here I've avoiding using my troop as a recruiting center for my crypto-fascist skinhead group. Now that I know that it is okay, I'll encourage the troop to stop going to Camp Wunk-a-puk-a-tuk and start going to "Den Lager des Ausgenflugleheimsturmverband."

[Hunt]

Not to belabor this point too much, but could evangelizing for a particular religion really be a Scouting activity? If it isn't, of course, the uniform shouldn't be worn. Line-drawing might be hard, because activities like Christmas caroling seem OK to me, for example (and I know some troops in fact do that, in uniform).

Maybe to take the religious element out of it, imagine if the CO takes positions on political issues and candidates--it doesn't seem to me that it would appropriate to send out scouts in uniform for that purpose either.

[Bob White]

Hunt, you are partially correct. The diferentiation is that the BSA is by it's own definition a religious organization but not a political one. It promotes citizenship but specifically prohibits campaigning for a specific candidate or party. It does however recognize religious organizations that share the same values as chartered organizations. The charter allows the organization to use scouting to promote the mission of the charter organization.

 

One poster took this to the absurd but suggesting that a "crypto-fascist" organization could use these same allowances to spread a non-souting message. What was either ignored or simply not known by the poster is that such an orhanization cannot hold a charter with the BSA.

 

The problem is Hunt you have tried to attach characteristics associated with public organizations to the BSA which is a private organization,and is bound by the same restrictions. The BSA can allow or disallow what-so-ever it chooses. I this case, there is no restriction for a religious organization that holds a BSA charter from using it's scout unit to further the mission of the church, regardless of what church that is. The key is that the church must be the sponsor of the scout unit involved.

 

Bob White

[Fat Old Guy]

" What was either ignored or simply not known by the poster is that such an orhanization cannot hold a charter with the BSA."

 

Why? Is there something in the secret documents that BSA won't let the people who pay the bills read without special permission from the Star Chamber? What is the difference between my hypothetical organization and the Mormons? Both are patriotic and neither likes outsiders.

[Bob White]

The difference is that one shares goals and values similar to the BSA (the Mormon church) and one does not (the FOG Crypto-Fascist Fan Club). But you already knew that.

[Fat Old Guy]

"The difference is that one shares goals and values similar to the BSA (the Mormon church) and one does not (the FOG Crypto-Fascist Fan Club)."

 

Bob White continues to show that he is unable to follow the Scout Law.

 

What are the goals of BSA? Character development, participating citizenship and physical fitness. Sounds like the goals of every crypto-fascist group that I've ever heard of. Xenophobic? Sure but so are the Mormons.

 

 

[Bob White]

Having trouble staying on topic?

 

I didn't say shared goals did I? I said shared values.

[Fat Old Guy]

Values? What are the values of BSA? I looked in my Scoutmaster's Handbook and I couldn't find a list. Are they also in the double secret books that we cannot see without special permission?

[evmori]

The BSA by it's own definition is a religious organization? It is? I never knew that! Ya learn something all the time around here!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

Who to start with...

FOG, In New Leader Essentials and in the Scoutmaster Fundamentals, depending on which if any training you attended, you were told that the values of scouting are encased in the scouting ideals represented by the Promise or Oath, The Law, or Law of the Pack, the Motto and Slogan. No secret books just information that you evidently never chose to learn.

 

Ed, I'm surprised to hear that you had no idea that scouting was a religious organization. Are you familiar with the Adult Leader Aplication form? Have you ever read or signed the Declararation of Religious Principles?

 

"The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God and, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member, but is absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training. The Boy Scouts of America's policy is that home and the organization or group with wich the member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life. Only persons willing to subscribe to this Declaration of Religious Principles and to the Bylaws of the Boy Scouts of America shall be entitled to certificates of leadership."

 

Perhaps the words Duty to God, or A Scout is Reverent hint at the importance of religion in a scouting life? Scouting has always been a religious organization.

 

I'm glad you are choosing to use the forum as a way to deepen your knowledge of scouting. Growth is always a good thing.

 

BW

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[evmori]

You mean because the BSA has a Declaration of Religious Principles that makes it a religious organization? I never knew that!!!! That would mean that any organization that had a declaration of religious principles was a religious organization!!!

 

Actually I did know that but I don't think because the BSA has a Declaration of Religious Principles makes it a religious organization.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

Scouting is a faith-based organization which requires members to accept values based on religious concepts. It requires youth members to perform measurable acts of duty to God, it has as officers in it's units Chaplains and Chaplian Aides, it prohibits membership to adults not accepting a religious principles statemement and the religious responsibilities it requires. What part of this doesn't seem to make it appear religious Ed? Granted it does not support a specific religion but it definitely requires its members to be religious.

 

Bob White

[Fat Old Guy]

" you were told that the values of scouting are encased in the scouting ideals represented by the Promise or Oath, The Law, or Law of the Pack, the Motto and Slogan."

 

Thank you Bob White for admitting that I am right. No where is it explicitly stated what the values of BSA are. Those values must be inferred and interpolated from other statements by BSA. Hmmmm. . . now just where does it say in those statements that homosexuals are not good role models?