More rules . . .

[committeechair]

One thing that is driving me batty in our troop lately is the not wearing the uniform properly. It is my understanding that the regular green and red cap with the Boy Scout emblem is the approved cap to wear with the uniform. But one kid wears the ones from summer camps. And other are wearing their rivaling college team caps in order to egg each other on. The men (leaders) think this is cute and just laugh. They allow them to wear these each week during the meeting, inside the church. As a mom, and the Committee Chairman for our troop, I am wanting to take all the hats and put them in a box until after football season!

[Fat Old Guy]

"I've been thought to be to emotional, cause I cry"

 

Heck, I cry when I read Captain America, when I watch The Sands of Iwo Jima, when I read about heroic Scouts and when I hear that another soldier died in that Hellhole called Iraq.

 

 

[Bob White]

So....Committeechair...How is the quality of the troop's program doing?

 

Bob White

[Proud Eagle]

I am glad to see that my throwing gas into the fire didn't cause it to explode.

 

 

Incorrect/incomplete uniforms are a problem in most units. I know it is a problem in my troop. My troop has 10 scouts that are life or star, maybe two of them have proper uniform on a regular basis. It was hard to tell the difference between the uniforms of those 10 experienced scouts and the 6 new ones last time I was arround. (this weekend)

 

Somehow we have fouled up over the last 8 years. Back in '95 you didn't go into a board of review for advancement without complete uniform. Now most of the scouts couldn't put together a complete uniform if they had to.

 

 

Oh, side issue-

 

Hats in buildings & churches

 

I have become convinced that (unless building rules or religious rules prevent it) Scouts should wear headgear as part of the uniform indoors. I have seen quite a few photos and illustrations from the older handbook that supports this idea. The fact that headgear is a part of the uniform also indicates that the uniform is incomplete without headgear.

 

However, I generally have not been wearing hats indoors with the uniform, because so many other Scouts and scouters are convinced that everyone should remove headgear indoors. It is just too much effort to have to stop and explain my reasoning every five minutes to someone suggesting I remove my hat.

 

I know that most of society removes headgear in church, and often indoors in general. I wonder if perhaps the push to remove headgear comes from the vets in Scouting. It is generally the military custom to remove headgear indoors (with certain exceptions).

[acco40]

Where I go to church, the tall, big, pointy hats are all the rage! Heck, it use to be considered ill-mannered if women did not cover their heads in church.

 

Seriously, I wear my head gear at COHs that are held inside in the church basement. Yes, I get frequent comments that proper etiquette tells us to take our hats off "in church" but my view is that if it is part of a uniform, wear it. Technically, it is in everyones etiquette book NOT to comment to others about etiquette faux pas in public!

[Big_Dog]

Acco40,

Are those the big, tall, pointy hats that look like they're made from a white sheet? I would suggest the Scout tobaggan type hat underneath as it helps the tall, pointy hat stand up straight. Nothin' worse than having your hat go limp at the wrong time.

bd

[Eamonn]

Seems to me that while the title of this thread is "More rules" That there has been very few rules.

I for one am sick to the hind teeth with the "Gay Debate."

I think that there are things that we as adults would like to see. Such as full uniforming and when and where to wear it.

We might like each Scout to put being a member of the troop above everything else and not want to take time to just hang out at the mall or where ever it is that the young people in your area hang. Or do the other stuff that Lads of Scout age want to do.

While there are a few Lads that do put membership of the BSA above everything else, my thinking is that these are the exception rather then the rule. It could be that most Scouts see this as a game.

While we see things in a different light.

We need to ask why does a boy join a troop?

Then we need to ask what keeps him coming back?

Or maybe we need to ask what made him leave?

I would hope that we are all upset and saddened when a boy quits the troop.

I for one take it that we have failed.

All the rules and regulations then are a waste of time. We will never have any sort of an impact on a boy who isn't there.

We have a program that if we follow the darn thing can and does work.

Why the heck can't we just deliver it and stop trying to add what we think it needs.

Eamonn

[acco40]

"It could be that most Scouts see this as a game."

 

I thought it was a game myself (a game with a purpose). Actually, if the most important thing in a young man's life is membership in the BSA, I'd be a little worried about him!

 

Now, don't get me wrong. I think I know what Eamonn is talking about and agree with him. Scouting is a grand program for most boys and as adults, we have a tremendous responsibility to administer the program properly. I've seen to many times units (troop mostly) that follow the unit leaders idea of what Scouting should be and not what the program really is.

 

[Bob White]

Eamonn for King!

[OldGreyEagle]

A Scout is Courteous...

 

A awhile back, in April, we had a campout with alot of the first year boys along. We had some rather mild weather and when the boys woke up at 5:30 am, they decided to take their baseball and gloves outside and play catch. It didn't take long to rouse most of the camp. The SPL chastised them for making so much noise.

 

Later the event was discussed, the new scouts were told not to get up to early, but werent given a time. 7:00am was given as the time unless he has "business" (IE Cook) and work is to be done quietly.

 

Another issue we have had is people tossing things in the camp fire. A tissue doesnt seem bad, until some one sees the tissue go in, then a paper cup goes in and then a empty paper plate, then a full of food paper plate until finally somebody sleeping bag is in the fire and no one knows where it got out of hand. We have a wood only rule concerning what goes in a fire.

 

As befitting a fire bug troop we have a few other guidelines regarding fires. Once a stick goes in the fire ring, it stays there. We have tried to keep all sticks out of the fire, but lost that war long ago.

 

ANother one the PLC made was the height of the log in the fire couldnt be more than the diameter of the fire ring.

 

I think of them as a guideline, some one else may cal them rules and there isnt much difference. What I would like to know is how do you keep order without such guidelines. I see these as compromises, but there has to be concrete limits, doesnt there? If I am missing the point, I can accept it, but do tell me where.

[Eamonn]

I had thought about starting a thread titled: Less Rules.

I do think that there is a need for order and discipline. I am in no way suggesting that we have that we allow anything that can be looked upon as being anarchy.

My "Thing " Is how we get there.

I am not saying that this is easy.

First we need to start with the ideal that we are aiming for is that each Scout is responsible for his own actions. This ideal will led Scouts to act in accordance with what they believe is right.

We use the Scout Oath and Law as our model of behavior.

Ideals are one of the methods of Scouting.

If a Scout betrays these ideals in a significant way then is the time to do something.

We need to remember that every situation is unique.

Also every Scout is unique.

With this in mind can we expect a formula approach to work.

The "Something" that has to be done would be a Scoutmaster Conference.

We need to be fair in our dealings with every Scout.

In fact we need to look upon being fair as a solemn obligation.

I know that I as a leader do not want to hide behind some piece of paper and pass my responsibility as a leader over to what it states. I am not happy saying that I have to react in such and such a way just because the "By-laws" Say that I must.

Maybe I'm too hard on myself, but I firmly believe that I am responsible for what happens in the unit. Things happen because I make them happen or because I allow them to happen positive or negative.

We need to look at each and every problem as a learning experiance or opportunity for growth.

The Scoutmaster Conference is the appropriate tool or vehicle for managing or implementing this opportunity. Based on the merits of the situation and the intricate relationship between the Scoutmaster and the Scout along with the individual traits of the Scout.

I would hope that at the end of the day the Scout and his parents would have more trust in me and my ability to lead then they would have in a piece of paper.

If they lack that trust in me, either they or I am in the wrong troop.

As stated this is not easy. In order to get there we need to look at the methods of Scouting and our leadership skills along with the material that is available.

It might help if we can remember that we really are there to serve the Scouts and that the program is what is on the menu.

I'm not sure if this helps OGE?

Eamonn

[Adrianvs]

Regarding the removal of headwear in church buildings, I think the rules of the church should apply. Where the rules are not given or known, I think that distinction should be made between the actual body of the church (narthex, nave, sanctuary, etc.) and other parts of the building. I don't consider myself to be inside a church if I am in a connected classroom three stories and two wings away from an actual worship area. On the other hand, it has been seen for centuries in Western society as a sign of respect to remove one's hat in various situations. This has often included removing one's hat indoors, whether at a public or private building. In most modern churches, it is the custom for men to remove headwear in the religious area itself. As a matter of respect and courtesy, one should do so. Even if the uniform were incomplete without unform headwear (a false notion), respect and courtesy would dictate hat removal. We must remember that church (and other organization) buildings are borrowed spaces, and in some cases sacred spaces. Let's not allow our arrogance and contempt be visibly demonstrated in such cases.

 

Regarding Scouting as a game, I recall that BP described it as such. An important and useful game, but a game nonetheless.

 

 

"A Scout is Courteous...

 

A awhile back, in April, we had a campout with alot of the first year boys along. We had some rather mild weather and when the boys woke up at 5:30 am, they decided to take their baseball and gloves outside and play catch. It didn't take long to rouse most of the camp. The SPL chastised them for making so much noise."

 

As a scout, I have been woken up at 6:00 am by noisy scouters on numerous occasions. One man's custom is another's inconvenience. Let us not forget that our own preferences are often quite arbitrary.

[Fat Old Guy]

"Actually, if the most important thing in a young man's life is membership in the BSA, I'd be a little worried about him!"

 

Why? Do you worry about the youth whose most important thing is the varsity basketball team?

[evmori]

"Actually, if the most important thing in a young man's life is membership in the BSA, I'd be a little worried about him!"

 

Huh???? Please explain?

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

 

[SR540Beaver]

"Actually, if the most important thing in a young man's life is membership in the BSA, I'd be a little worried about him!"

 

I'll take a stab at how I understand this statement. Scouting is a great program, but it is not the be all end all of a boys life. BSA does not expect this. Look at what the BSA wants for each boy....duty to God, duty to country, duty to others, duty to self. BSA expects a scout to be a well rounded scout. Do you want a kid who says, "I don't need me no educashun, I'm gonna be a basketball star and be rich"? You expect that kid to get an education and love basketball both. Well rounded is what this statement means. Not putting all your eggs in one basket. Should scouting be important to a boy? Of course! Should it be the MOST important thing in his life? Your son's coach, teachers, minister, boss, girlfriend, etc might beg to differ with you. One of my recent pleasures was at a parent/teacher conference when my son's teacher said he was a very well rounded child. Scouting should play a very important role in a boys life along with his other pursuits and obligations.