More rules . . .

[Fat Old Guy]

Since my last thread went astray, I'll try again.

 

How about the "no sheath knives" rule that many troops enact. That is not covered by any BSA policy nor by the Scout law.

 

[Laurie]

Page 37 of the Guide to Safe Scouting (green cover--last year's issue, I believe), reads as follows:

 

"Knives

 

A sharp pocketknife with a can opener on it is an invaluable backcountry tool. Keep it clean, sharp, and handy. Avoid large sheath knives. They are heavy and awkward to carry, and unnecessary for most camp chores except for cleaning fish. Since its inception, Boy Scouting has relied heavily on an outdoor program to achieve its objectives. This program meets more of the purposes of Scouting than any other single feature. We believe we have a duty to instill how to use, handle, and store legally owned knives with the highest concern for safety and responsibility.

 

References: Boy Scout Handbook, Fieldbook, Bear Cub Scout Book, and Wolf Cub Scout Book"

 

This is not in bold print, so it seems to fall into the guide category rather than policy. Could it be that since the sheath knife is not considered necessary for camping, that the troops that use this rule are erring on the side of caution? I'm curious to learn more from other responders, but I know our troop does not allow sheath knives, though I don't know the reason for that. The troop policy was in place when our son joined the troop.

[Bob White]

A scout iS Trustworthy

 

Excerpted from the Guide to Safe Scouting.

"A sharp pocketknife with a can opener on it is an invaluable backcountry tool. Keep it clean, sharp, and handy. Avoid large sheath knives. They are heavy and awkward to carry, and unnecessary for most camp chores except for cleaning fish. Since its inception, Boy Scouting has relied heavily on an outdoor program to achieve its objectives. This program meets more of the purposes of Scouting than any other single feature. We believe we have a duty to instill in our members, youth and adult, the knowledge of how to use, handle, and store legally owned knives with the highest concern for safety and responsibility.

 

Rememberknives are not allowed on school premises, nor can they be taken aboard commercial aircraft.

 

References: Boy Scout Handbook, Fieldbook, Bear Cub Scout Book, and Wolf Cub Scout Book"

 

The BSA does not require the prohibition of sheath knives and acknowledges that while unecessary for most camp chores it does not say all camp chores.

 

The BSA program has always taught scouts to use the right tool for the right job. The BSA program gives the scout leader the responsibility to see that the scouts have the needed training to understand what the right tool is and how it can be used safely.

 

A Scout is Helpful

Rather than create artificial rules, the Unit Leader could fulfill their role as teacher and guide by seeing that scouts have the proper instruction in the use and safe handling of knives and other camp tools.

 

Bob White

[OldGreyEagle]

How about the infamous no Camo rule, Note, I am not talking about imitating militaty uniforms, which is unlawful.

[Bob White]

More artificial unit rules. The scouting program uses the methods of scouting to reach the aims of scouting. The methods are tools for the adults to use. They are the things we do "with the scouts" not "to the scouts". I cannopt think of any scouting methods that are covered by the Scout Law.

 

To take "methods" and convert them to unit rules is a misuse of the program by the unit leaders. And scout leaders should be "Trustworthy" and "Obedient" and follow the scouting program as they agreed to.

[Fat Old Guy]

I don't see how "Trustworthy" has anything to do with Sheath Knives.

 

And when it comes to using the right tool for any job, a folding knife is a compromise, at best, for any job.

[Bob White]

We expect the scouts to be trustworthy and follow the safety techniques we share with them and not misuse tools.

 

Every camping tool is a compromise on what would do the job the best as compared to what will get the job done effectively and be lightweight and compact.

 

We do not need artificial rules to provide a good scouting program, we need adult leaders who understand and use the scouting program.

 

bob White

 

 

[Fat Old Guy]

So Bob, are we to infer that your troop the troop which you are honored to serve has no rules other than the Scout Law? Not one, single, solitary rule?

[Bob White]

The only rules the troop has those set by the BSA. From that base we teach the Scouts and Scout leaders to make "ethical decisions based on the values expressed in the Scout Oath and Scout Law".

It only makes sense to use the mission of scouting to deliver scouting.

 

Rules are made to control behavior. Scouting teaches behavior based on positive constructive values. As a scout leader you are not asked or expected to create rules. You are asked and expected to use the methods of scouting to teach the scouting values.

 

If we do our job, we do not need other rules.

 

Happy Scouting,

Bob White

 

 

 

 

[evmori]

So if I was a youth member of Bob's Troop, I would not need to show up for Troop meeting in order to advance. I could show up once & awhile go over the rank advancement in my book get it signed off & then leave. And I would be able to advance at least through 2nd Class. I would probably be able to due the same thing if elected or appointed to a POR after 2nd Class! I could probably get to Eagle and only show up once or twice a month for Troop meetings & outings!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

I have no idea how you leaped to such an unusual assumption Ed? But the scenario you suggest is all fiction with no fact.

 

I do not believe any scout in a troop I served showed up at troop meetings in order to advance. They showed up because the troop meetings are fun and it's a place they want to be.

 

By participating in an active planned program they found themselves advancing as they put to use the things they learned during the activities.

 

When you have a position of responsibility (either by open election or selection by the PL or SPL) you are continually trained and developed in how to do the job successfully. You come to the troop meetings, not because of some artificial rule that was created to force you to be there, but because you understand and accept your importance to the success of the troop or patrol, and because you have fun.

 

You might achieve Eagle if that is a goal you set for yourself and work toward achieving. But if you expect to get it because you think that the troop meetings are supposed to be merit badge classes and that the purpose of scouting is to churn out eagle Scouts. Than you had best join another troop, because that's not scouting and we don't do things that way. Perhaps you know of a troop better suited to that goal Ed?

 

Happy Scouting,

Bob White

 

[Fat Old Guy]

Bob, did your Scouts have to pay a fee in addition to the BSA dues and Boy's Life fee?

[Bob White]

The troop operates on a budget based on popcorn sales. Scouts and parent are shown a budget based on the activities that have been decided don during the annual planning. Scouts are all asked to achieve a determined minimum sales, or to support the troop by an amount equal to the profits that would have been achieved by the minimum sales of popcorn.

 

No family is forced to pay anything. Not all families can, we let them know how much the troop spends and ask them to carry their share if they can.

 

Is it a rule, no, because there is no punishment if they do not pay. It's a request. If we did our job in planning and presenting an exciting program and a reasonable budget then we have no problems raising the money we need.

 

Thanks for asking,

Bob White

[evmori]

I came to those conclusion based on your post. Since the BSA has no attendance requirements a Scout can show up whenever he needs to. And if he only needs to show up when he needs something that's ok in your Troop. No committment necessary.

 

Did I mention merit badges? Nope! Never even considered them. And no we don't work on merit badges in our Troop meetings. Once again, you assumed wrong.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

I know we are straying a little but I think this is an important point to share and I will bring us back to the topic of the thread at the end.

 

I think Ed you have a fairly common skeptical attitude among some scout leaders that "since the BSA has no attendance requirements a Scout can show up whenever he needs to". I think that you are missing the beauty of a well planned scout program, "the BSA has no attendance requirements so a Scout will show up whenever he wants to. A good scouting program makes a boy want to come to meetings.

 

Poor attendance is not a problem, it is a symptom. The problem, when you have poor attendance, is a weak troop program, and no amount of rule making will fix that.

 

Which brings us back to the topic of the thread. The need for artificial unit rules. If you deliver the scouting program as it has been developed then the only rule you need is "we will operate according to the BSA program".

 

I(f you cannot lead the scouts to the expected behavior then no amount of unit rules will drive them there, you will only drive them away, and drive you further from the methods of scouting.

 

Happy Scouting,

Bob White