Cell phones?

[Fat Old Guy]

"But no one with out a court order over rules my being a parent."

 

Sure they do. It happens all the time, you just don't think about it.

 

What if your son was visiting a friend and the friend's parents insisted that he leaves his cell phone in the car. Are you going to punch them out? Rant? It's their house and they can make the rules.

 

You'd probably have some pretty big problems with me. I don't allow Game Boys or Walkmen (Walkmans?) to be used in my car. I might expand that to cell phones.

 

"My actions as a parent are not subject to some set of arbitarary rules"

 

All rules are arbitrary. If you can't abide of the troop, maybe you shouldn't belong. What if your son's Scoutmaster said, "Okay guys, I don't want you carrying knives to troop meetings."

 

Troops are free to set standards of conduct and if you can't deal with that maybe you don't belong in Scouting (oooooo, I sound like Bob White there don't I?)

 

 

(This message has been edited by Fat Old Guy)

[Eamonn]

"Troops are free to set rules of conduct"

Where does it say that?

I have never seen that troops can set any rules that are not covered by the BSA.

I can't see any reason why anyone would ask for a phone to be left in a car.

I do ask adults, Scouts and anyone if they would turn the phone to silent mode, when it might interfere with something. I have also asked that if they need to take or make a call that they do it at the appropriate time and place.

I think that Scouting would be better served if these tyrannical rule makers would try reading and implementing the program of the BSA it is they who maybe don't belong to Scouting.

As Bob White has not posted in this thread, I fail to see the need for your snide mention of his name.

Is this what Scouting is about?

No it is not. So please stop it.

Eamonn

 

[saltheart]

Eamonn,

 

Do I read your commentary to mean that those who work to establish rules regarding behavior within the troop, such as the carrying of cell phones and other potentially distracting devices, are nothing but "tyrannical rule makers"?

[Fat Old Guy]

"Troops are free to set rules of conduct"

Where does it say that?

 

Better yet, where does it say that they cannot? That which is not prohibited is permitted by inference.

 

"As Bob White has not posted in this thread, I fail to see the need for your snide mention of his name."

 

Snide only in your mind, it was similar to statements that Bob White has made many times in the past to others.

 

 

 

 

 

[Adrianvs]

"My dog collects cell phones. He used to collect flashlights (that were constantly being shown in other people's faces at night). That stopped."

 

Fascinating troop, Sarge. Not only does the PLC and Committee allow all members to bring pets to campouts, they have allowed them to be used in the confiscation of contraband. Do the dogs sleep in troop tents or those who bring them required to use personal tents?

[Eamonn]

We have the Scout Law.

Do we need to add to this?

Over the years I have seen and heard of all sorts of rules that someone thought up and tried to force upon our youth.

Find me a situation that isn't covered by the Scout Law.

Eamonn

[hops_scout]

Gee Fog, are you the reason your troop has made rules about that???

They shouldn't have to be done because all Scouts should live up to the Scout Oath and Law. Those should be the only rules a troop needs.

[Fat Old Guy]

"We have the Scout Law.

Do we need to add to this? "

 

We have the Ten Commandments but we still have volumes of laws to cover specific situations. One says "Thou shall not steal" but then we have laws to say that robbery is illegal as is burglry, theft by conversion, theft by fraud, embezzlement, etc..

 

So Hopper, are you telling us that your troop has no rules other than the Scout Law? Being a child, you probably aren't aware of half of what goes on.

[Eamonn]

Saltheart,

My problem is with those who work to establish rules.

Here is my thinking.

First we have a set of rules in the Scout Law. I tend to think that they cover just about everything.

The problem when we try to make rules is that we can never cover everything. Today it's a cell phone then a Lad brings a pager then it's a PDA, and the list grows till we have something the size of an elephant.

We need to keep an open mind and remain flexible and work with our youth rather then set about making rules.

My other problem is that in most cases when we have a rule we also have a consequence for not keeping the rule. This consequence is looked upon by the Scouts as a punishment.

While a parent may have the right to punish, I don't think that this is a place where Scout Leaders want to or need to go.

While this is a little off topic.

Last Jamboree. Due to my concern about security. I as the Scoutmaster (after not talking to the PLC) Said no CD players, but in keeping with the Jamboree guidelines I said that a small radio was ok.

The Patrol Leaders came to me and said that they thought that this was unfair.

I explained that I thought that a CD player and a bunch of discs might be a temptation. Also that if someone had their walkman taken that they would be upset.

They put forth a good case for allowing them on the bus and at night.

As it so happened we had a VCR on the bus and I took along a few tapes. I didn't see anyone wearing a walkman. Nor did I see anyone wearing one during the day at the Jamboree.

There was a dictatorial rule made by me. Which proved to not be what the Scouts wanted.

They went through the correct process and had it changed. In fact there was no rule, no consequence to be put in place.

Don't you think that these Lads learnt far more out of this then if we had just had a rule because I said so ?

Eamonn

[packsaddle]

EAMONN, In my post I mentioned that WE do not allow certain items. In this troop 'WE' means the collective decision of the boys, the parents, and the leaders. This has been agreed because of previous experience of massive time wasted looking for lost gameboys, and anguish over CD players that were ruined by rain. Most of the boys don't have cell phones and they outvote those that do. None of them really need cell phones for our trips as the leaders give them free access to the leaders' phones. 'I' suggested the exception for long trips because I saw the utility of giving them something to do while sitting for long stretches. They agreed to that as well but some of them still leave their stuff at home (largely out of the experience of having lost them in the past). I respect their decision. If a parent has a special need we are always sympathetic and try to accommodate that need. It works for us.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[Fat Old Guy]

"Which proved to not be what the Scouts wanted."

 

I want to be able to buy beer at 2 AM but I can't. Life's tough.

 

[Adrianvs]

Let us remember not to make these firm rules simply iron-clad expressions of our own personal tastes and preferences. For example, a scoutmaster may decree that card games like Magic or Yu-Gi-Oh are a distraction to the outdoor experience. Then, as night falls and the lanterns are fired up the scouters gather to play a rousing round of... CRIBBAGE!!!

 

Also, let us take care that the rules that apply to us are applied to us. A scoutmaster might decree that scouts must use troop tents and pair up in them. This is for reasons of campsite aethetics and space. We should not find this scoutmaster then lounging in front of his ten man personal tent on the next campout should we?

 

Robert Baden-Powell on the scoutmaster's qualities:

 

" 1. He must have the boy spirit in him; and must be able to place himself on a right plane with his boys as a first step...

 

..With regard to the first point, the Scoutmaster has to be neither schoolmaster nor commanding officer, nor pastor, nor instructor...

 

..He has got to put himself on the level of the older brother, that is, to see things from the boy's point of view, and to lead and guide and give enthusiasm in the right direction. Like the true older brother he has to realise the traditions of the family and see that they are preserved, even if considerable firmness is required. That is all."

 

 

It is no coincidence that in Boy Scouting, youth and adults wear the same uniforms. Scoutmasters must inforce many rules and sometimes create new ones, but they must be willing to subject themselves to the same rules as fellows to the scouts.(This message has been edited by Adrianvs)