Socialized Medicine in the US are you kidding

[OldGreyEagle]

To avoid hijacking my own thread, I started this one. I am sorry if I insult any one but socialized medicine, goverment run healthcare or whatever you call it is nothing but an unmitigated disaster.

 

We have the Veterans Administration, and I want testimonials on how the veterans in the group think about its level of care and service. We have Medicare, and I can personally tell you, as its my business to explain Medicare rules that the system couldnt be any more convoluted if they tried.

 

Does any government enterprises work? The Post Office? If it was a model of efficiency, then Airborne, FEDEX, UPS and other carriers wouldnt exist. Can you say Amtrak? Is it still in business? What level of service does/did it provide? How many people here have had experience with a "county" hospital, did you like it? Compared to a for profit hospital? What are your experineces?

 

I dont include the military as they are not expected to turn a profit. Sorry, there are a lot of things that could be improved in healthcare, but having the government run it is not one of them

[dsteele]

OGE --

 

I agree 100%. Other than Princess Dianna (and I think her teeth were too big) I have never met a British Citizen with good teeth. I'll add as a caveat that I've only talked to Eamonn on the phone and don't know what his teeth look like.

 

England, France and Canada are the only countries I'm sure of that have nationalized medical care and I've heard horror stories from each country. Things Americans would never put up with. Or, to paraphrase Truman, things with which Americans would not put.

 

Our system is far from perfect, but it is the best I know.

 

DS

[Eamonn]

I was brought up under/with the English National Health Care.

Yes there were waiting lists and maybe things could have been done better.

Have been in the USA for 20 years and always had a job that had healthcare as a benifit.

I really don't know how it works for the "Working Poor."

My employer is UPMC, they offer us a HMO. Which most of the time works out fairly well.

Last year they wanted us to use only UPMC owned centers, which is fine if you live in the big city.

Sad to say I don't.

They do offer an open access plan.

It now costs me almost twice as much as I was paying under the old plan.

Eamonn

[Eamonn]

My teeth are fine.

Well almost.

The dentist says that I a scaling.

Seems that every year we have a new dental plan.

While I think of it there are states here in the U.S. That a lot of Americans think need a dental check up.

Of course I wouldn't be as rude as to say which state.

Eamonn

[gsmom]

I moved from the US, where I had world-class health care provided by my employer, to the UK where I (and my family) are covered by the NHS (National Health Service). The NHS has its problems, to be sure. However, it covers EVERY citizen and non-citizen living here legally. The British are justifiably proud of this. In the US you have a wide disparity between those who are employed with health insurance (and by the way, many of the working poor have no insurance) and those with no insurance. Purchasing insurance privately is prohibitively expensive for all but the very affluent. Paying out of pocket is for the wealthy. There are currently about FORTY MILLION in the US without health care. I think this is unacceptable.

 

The issue is not whether national health care is socialist or whatever. The real issue is how do we ensure that ALL US citizens (and legal residents) have health care.

 

gsmom

[dsteele]

I apologize. I had no intention of insulting the British. Obviously I haven't met every citizen of the Emerald Isle and can't account for all of their teeth. I also apologize to Eamonn -- it sounds like he has good teeth.

 

DS

[saltheart]

Socialized medicine? Here? I don't think so. But....

 

I do have real concerns about the level of care provided by a system based on profit; on the part of the doctors, on the part of the hospitals, and especially on the part of the insurance providers and HMO's whose bean-counters establish just what care they will and will not pay for, therefore, by default, establishing what level of care the patient will receive. That's frightening. It's fraught with perils for the patient who may be discharged prior to being really ready for discharge from a medical facility.

 

Socialized medicine? No. But I do have strong reservations about the 'for profit' analysis of patient condition and health. At the present, I have no alternative to offer. Hopefully minds and masters beyond me and mine might find a 'cure' for those ills....soon.

[berkshirescouter]

I know this is simplistic but; If the health care industry and the patients followed Scout oath and law there would be no need for the double and triple checkers for each bill submitted. That is one thing that is driving up health care big time.

[packsaddle]

Actually, I seem to remember the Emerald Isle as being Ireland. Have I been mistaken?

There is an evolutionary element to this topic. If access to care and quality of care are dependent on personal resources (as opposed to gov't handouts/Medicare/Medicaid/whatever), then when this limiting factor is applied to children (pre-reproduction) the greatest selective pressure is brought to bear on those whose families have the least. This means that children with few resources will have less reproductive success than children with adequate resources.

Assuming that there is a genetic basis for economic success or something associated with that, the population will gradually change, becoming more efficient and competitive, and the genetic makeup of the population will gradually improve, defectives having been weeded out through the selective process. At least this is what I have been told by others (for some reason, more often in Idaho). Is this along the line of what you're suggesting OGE?

[Fat Old Guy]

" The real issue is how do we ensure that ALL US citizens (and legal residents) have health care."

 

If we had national health care, you can be sure that it would be extended to illegal aliens just like their kids are entitled to go to public schools.

 

 

[acco40]

What other commodity do we (US citizens) purchase without any idea of the cost? When I take my children to the emergency room, when I go to the doctor, etc. I usually have no idea what the cost will be. It is very difficult to comparison shop. In the USA we tend to idolize doctors. In some other countries, i.e. Russia, this is not done. If the US is serious about driving down health care costs, outlaw insurance and socialized medicine! Make everyone an educated consumer! I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for that to happen!

 

If we don't have socialized medicine then we should allow private citizens to purchase drugs. Why am I not free to risk my own health in the purchase of prescription drugs? Doctors do. I'm allowed to eat, drink & smoke to excess. I can partake in risky behaviors all without the government interfering. Let me self diagnose and treat myself.

 

The problem for me is that if YOU are in bad health, it drives up MY health care costs. That is why such laws as mandatory seat belts, helmet laws, etc. seem to make sense to many.

 

And finally, put Congress and our other elected officials on the same health care, social security and retirement benefits as the majority of other Americans. It would greatly speed up a "fix."

[saltheart]

And finally, put Congress and our other elected officials on the same health care, social security and retirement benefits as the majority of other Americans. It would greatly speed up a "fix."

 

BINGO!!!! Magnificent point made. Absolutely!!! This is the 'ol, "what's good for the goose is good for the gander thing". Of course, one must realize that this will never happen. The fiefdom mentality must disappear first.

 

[gsmom]

"If the US is serious about driving down health care costs, outlaw insurance and socialized medicine! Make everyone an educated consumer!"

 

 

 

 

The problem with making everyone buy their own health care is that treatment for the catastrophic illness is beyond the means of the ordinary individual or family. For example, my first child was born with congenital heart defects. The open heart surgery took 9 hours, and her care for the 10 months she lived cost $100,000. She had a very rare defect, and died from complications of surgery. The insurance paid for her care. I don't believe anyone in this forum would have denied her this care simply because my family could'nt afford it. NO family should be denied access to care when it is really necessary. The challenge our government has is to figure out how to make sure that everyone who needs it gets appropriate care. This may be a combination of "socialized medicine", insurance, and family contributions. But something does need to be done.

 

gsmom

[Fat Old Guy]

"I'm allowed to eat, drink & smoke to excess. I can partake in risky behaviors all without the government interfering. Let me self diagnose and treat myself."

 

There's a big problem with that. You aren't qualified to diagnose yourself which hinders your ability to treat yourself. Can you tell when you have a viral infection vs. a bacterial infrection? Do you know which anti-biotics work for what types of infections?

 

If people could medicate themeselves they'd be overmedicating themselves which would wind breeding bacteria that are more resistant to drugs.

 

What about pain killers? Many are very addictive? Should you be allowed to take those at will?

 

 

 

[Achilleez]

I realize that since I am Canadian my views are heavily biased, but that just can't be helped.

 

Yes, it's true that in Canada we have to wait for 1-2 hours to find out that we have a cold, and even then the service is sometimes questionable. However, minor incoveneinces like these are a small price to pay for the vast benefits we receive. In the USA you could pay $20,000 to get an appendix removed. Pretty tough if your income is $30,000. In Canada, you just flash your OHIP card and in a few hours you walk out with just as much money in your pocket.

 

Sometimes I worry that the health system in Canada will be privatised, just like our airlines and hydro have become (though those two don't bother me much). True, privitisation creates competition which drives for lower prices and higher standards of service.

 

However, privitisation also creates liability. Meaning that if the hospital were to incur losses, the cost would have to be covered by raising prices, lowering standards and laying off employees.

 

I beleive in a Modern Mixed Economy, where businesses are privately owned and controlled but essential services (schools, hospitals) are government regulated to ensure that standards are met.

 

 

 

"If we had national health care, you can be sure that it would be extended to illegal aliens just like their kids are entitled to go to public schools. "

 

That sounds pretty racist to me, but if that wasn't your meaning I apologize.(This message has been edited by Achilleez)