A Political Ideology Challenge, Scouts Honor you follow the rules

[OldGreyEagle]

I always wanted to do this, and now is as good a time as any.

 

I would like any one who wishes to state their political position and make a case as to why its the best,what attracts you to it, why do you support its ideals? like I am a conservative because... Or I am a Democrat because...

 

Oh, an the rules thing, you cant say your position is best because some other one sucks. No I am a liberal because conservatives are idiots or I am a conservative because liberals are idiots. Support your view without detracting from the opposing side.

 

Can it be done? We will see

[Achilleez]

There is a saying,

 

"When you're young and have a heart you support liberal, and when you're old and have a brain you support conservative"

 

Since Ontario just had it's recent premier Ernie Eaves replaces by Dalton McGuinty, I will choose to reflect upon that situation.

 

Ernie Eaves (conservative), used arguments against the liberals claiming that they planned to raise taxes and make life harder for the average working Joe. Of course the liberals had never actually stated this, their agenda was more tax directed. Eaves planned to give tax breaks to senior citizens, making home ownership more affordable. He also desired to give tax benefits to large corporations, this he claimed would allow them to raise salaries and strengthen the Ontario economy. Of course the corporations would do no such thing and it was in part for this reason that the conservatives lost popularity. The liberals planned on making no tax cuts, however no raises either. McGuinty was right in saying that the schools and hospitals needed the money desperately, and this motive was looked upon with more respect of course. Election day came, and the liberals won by a landslide.

 

That being said.....

 

I am a firm liberal supporter. Their focus on the essential services needed for communities (schools, hospitals, public transportation ect.) is one that I support much more than the conservatives focus on strenghtening the large corporations whose priorities are profit and not benefits to the province.

 

Canada is simply a much more Command economy than the USA which is an extremely Market oriented economy. While the market economy brings more opportunity for privatization of small businesses, it unfortunately as well brings the corporations too strong a foot-hold into the areas which I think would be better regulated by the government. I would rejoice the day we take a chapter out of Canada's book and implemented free health care.

 

Using the Ontario example, I would conclude in saying that the Democrats would be much more likely to head in the Canadian direction than Republicans. Mr. Bush seems intent on steering America away from the Canadian ideals however...

 

So if you have absolutely no interest in the affairs of Ontario, then I apologize for wasting your time

[packsaddle]

Achilleez, If I haven't welcomed you to the forum before, I do now. I do appreciate views from citizens of other countries.

OGE, isn't it customary for the person who starts something like this to take the first plunge?

 

As if I have to say this, I support personal liberty with regard to social issues. For this people call me a 'liberal' or something similar. At the same time, I strongly support conservation of resources and care and restraint in fiscal matters. For this some people call me 'conservative' and some people call me 'liberal' (this is a bit confusing). I am also active in Scouting. For this I have been called other things (but 'liberal' is not one of them).

I try to view every person as an individual and I wish they would return the favor. I also try not to apply labels because I think labels get in the way of the open exchange of ideas. For this I am told I don't 'fit in'. They're probably right (left?).

[Fat Old Guy]

The lines of liberal and conservative are very confusing. Liberal would imply that personal freedoms are paramount but that's not what I see. Liberals are the ones who push for things like mandatory seat belt or helmet laws. Liberals seem to want government to be a parent to us and tell us what is good for us. If memory serves, Clinton made a statement to that effect.

 

There has been a dramatic swing in the liberal/conservative world. It used to be that conservatives trusted the government and liberals didn't. Now it is the other way around.

 

What am I? Most consider me a conservative because I want the government to say out of my business. I've always worn a seatbelt but don't like being told that I must. I support capital punishment and I don't think that prisoners should get TVs, internet or a free education.

 

"I would rejoice the day we take a chapter out of Canada's book and implemented free health care."

 

Nothing is really free, they taught that in Econ 101.

 

[dsteele]

I ask you to take my views in this post as personal and not as a professional in the BSA. Most folks on this board can do that, and I apologize in advance to those who can't. Let met just say that professional scouters are entitled to their policical leanings and can express them as long as they don't, in expressing them, try to portray their views as the views of the BSA.

 

My views are not the views of the BSA.

 

I consider myself a conservative because I don't believe the government has any obligation to me as a citizen other than to protect my interests here and abroad.

 

The government doesn't owe me welfare. The government doesn't owe me anything that can't be done locally by a church or a charitable agency other than to build roads and provide for the common defense. A public education for the local children is also a right of any American and is contained in the constitution.

 

There's an old joke that a liberal who sees a man drowning 50 yards off shore will toss a rope to the man and let go of the end on the shore and say, "He's got the help he needs." and walk away very satisfied with himself.

 

A conservative will hang on to the end of the rope, but only toss it half-way to the drowning man and say, "If he wants it, he'll go for it."

 

I tend to fall on the side of the conservative -- local help as opposed to federal. However, I also take some wisdom from the above joke and realize that not everyone can swim to the rope. Sometimes a little help is necessary . . . but it shouldn't come from the Federal government unless it is an extreme emergency that endangers the general welfare of the United States.

 

Huge arguments have arisen out of arguments about the meaning of "welfare," but I'll not engage in them.

 

I'm a conservative and have been for most of my life. Even when I was young and had no heart.

 

Having said that, I believe that we need both liberals and conservatives in this country to keep it on track. When both exist there is balance.

 

I believe that Nazi Germany happened when ultra-conservatives (radicals) drowned out the more humanist views. I believe that the Russian Revolution (communists) rose to power when the liberal forces (anti-Czar) killed the Czars. Balance is key to peace.

 

Okay -- OGE -- I'm on my limb and hope I've played according to the rules.

 

DS

[Bob White]

I tend to support repulican ideology. I think if you give a person a fish you feed him for a a day, but if you teach him to fish you feed him for a lifetime. I realize that their are people who for one reason or another are for varying periods of time unable to fish. I will gladly share some of my fish with them. I will even encourage others to do the same.

 

But there are an alarming number of people perfectly capabale of fishing who choose not to. I have no interest in giving them my fish. So the demecratic party, rather than buying them fishing poles, taxes me, then takes my money buys fish and gives it to those who refuse to fish, in order to garner votes to keep them in office.

 

My second problem is is that the democratic party does not like things that I like. They don't like Police Officers (two of my brothers are in law enforcement), they don't like scouting, they don't like the rich (by their standards that means anyone who makes over 40,000 and isn't a democrat), and they like the United Nations more than they like the United States.

 

Do not misunderstand I do not dislike a person if they are a democrat, I simply disagree with the ideology of the Democratic Party. They want people to depend on the government, and the want the people who don't depend on the government to take care of them.

 

Bob White

[Eamonn]

Left Wing?

Right Wing?

My Father was a member of the English Labour Pary and mt Mother was a true blue Conservative.

Dinner was a lot of fun in our house.

As a student I joined the Young Socialists.

Yes we were going to change the world.

Sad to say for a long time nothing seemed to fit.

The Conservatives and Maggie Thatcher became more and more right wing. The Labour Party became the Looney Left.

Yes I want a more caring, loving society.

No I don't want the government sticking its nose into everything.

I look at todays Labour Party under Tony Blair and I see that the left wing is moving more to the center.

I am not at all taken by George W.

So at the end of the day I think that I'm a bit like that old Cash song.

Eamonn

[OutdoorThinker]

I may be a liberal because I am young and idealistic and optimistic.

 

However, I am also a liberal beacause I believe in freedom of speech. I am a liberal because I feel that money should go to public education so that all children gain a good education and are able to be competitive for college and eventually the work force. I am a liberal because I believe no one should go to bed hungry at night. I am a liberal because I feel that workers have the right to ban together and right for better working conditions as well as better benefits and better salaries. I am a liberal because I believe that women have the right to make their own decisions, especially when it comes to their bodies.I am a liberal to be a voice to those who dont have much ability to speak for themselves: the poor, minorities, and women to name a few groups. I am a liberal because I think that conserving our natural resources and conserving our earth is a good thing.

 

Well, I am out taking a risk and writing about what I believe to a rather tough crowd when it comes to my political beliefs. I complied with your rules to the best of my abilities (and I went through several drafts editing some statements that broke the rules).

 

[Bob White]

My apologies OGE upon reredaing your original post and my own I believe I violated your guidelines. Allow me to retract and rephrase.

 

I find the republican ideology likes what I like, A belief in the law and the protection of citizens. A strong military to protect our country and our friends. The repuplican ideology believes in values that I believe in.

The republicans belief in protecting those that cannot protect themselves but not those who can but choose not to. The repubilcan ideology believes in a balance between protecting our natural resources and using our resources to benefit the people (as a side note almost all national parks were indtistuted by republican administrations). Republican ideology favors the individual controling his life and not the government.

 

Again, my apologies for the misdirection.

 

BW

 

[evmori]

I'm a democrat. Why? Because JFK was. No other reason. I consider myself more conservative than not. It depends on the situation more than anything.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

Make that "instituted". Hey it was almost 2 A.M.

 

BW

[Twocubdad]

I am a registered Democrat, mostly because I have always been one. I am probably more precisely an independent, but around here that precludes you from voting in primaries which, because of the ding-a-ling way districts are set up, is when many races are decided.

 

You guys would obviously consider me a liberal, but I really dislike that label, mostly because of all the baggage everyone else has hung on it over the last 30 years. In the other thread I chose to call myself a liberal, primarily from a rhetorical standpoint. I'm glad to be able to put a sharper focus on the definition.

 

Like packsaddle, I am a strong beliver in personal liberties. That drives my political thinking more than anything else. I think the direction our country is taking with the mis-named "Patriot Acts" is far more dangerous than the terrorists.

 

Interestingly, the personal choices I make when excersizing my liberties are fairly conservative. That, by the way, is my explaination for being able to hold both liberal philosophies and the ideals of Scouting. However I will defend to the last the right of everyone else to make their own decisions free of interference from the government or others, even if those are not the decision I would have made.

 

Everyone says they are fiscally conservative. Sure, I'd like to keep more of my money come April 15, but I think we as a country have gotten what we asked for. Re-election rates to Congress are something like 85 or 90 percent, because we all like that our guys can bring home the bacon. I don't see anyone, left or right, sending their bacon back to DC. Wasteful government spending is always what the other guy is getting.

 

Social programs. Hmmmm. I agree with the conservative philosophy regarding personal responsibility. That works well for the vast majority of Americans. I think we as a country have the resources and the compassion such that we don't want to see anyone starve -- even if they are starving due to their own poor choices. That's a good thing -- even listed in the Constitution right after "provide for the common defense". The problem is knowing how to separate folks who are in need due to their own poor choices or due to simple circumstance.

 

Let me torture the fishing analogy a bit more. Waiting in line at the lake are people who want to learn to fish. Wether or not we teach them to fish or simply hand them a fish is up to us, not them. There are some folks who are willing and able to fish, they just need a pole. And there are others whe legitimately cannot fish for themselvea and truely need our help. And of course there are some who will to sit in the shade and take fish from the rest of us. But we don't shut down the fishing program because of them. (Another time we can explore the role of the corporation that owns the lake.)

 

Of course the welfare system has it's problems. The greatest has been the creation of a permanent welfare class. Does is bother me that some people are content to sit on their butts and wait for a handout? You bet. Are some people going to abuse the system? Sure. But I have to believe that they are a small minority of the population of needy people. While we fix the problems with the system, I'm willing to tolerate them for the greater good.

[le Voyageur]

Politically, I'm a iconoclastic properterian anarchist...have never liked any form of government except for the absolute bare minimums. Governments grow to enslave their citizens directly or indirectly. Governments create laws to subtract, restrict and regulate the freedoms of it's citizens, while giving itself ever increasing power over it's citizens. It is one of the hidden functions of government to imprison it's citizens for infractions of it's law while limiting or eliminating redress for it's own infractions. It is also the hidden function of governments to exercise a policy of democide to kill it's citizens directly, or indirectly through either it's criminal justice system, or it's military.

It is the power of the government to levy runious taxes to suppress the power of the middle class, while protecting it's elitist power base. Without poverty created by governments the wealthy would not exist...

 

[acco40]

dsteele: "A public education for the local children is also a right of any American and is contained in the constitution." I was not aware of any "right" to an education that is implied in the US constitution.

 

FOG: "Liberal would imply that personal freedoms are paramount but that's not what I see. Liberals are the ones who push for things like mandatory seat belt or helmet laws. Liberals seem to want government to be a parent to us and tell us what is good for us."

 

I tend to agree the the terms liberal and conservative are blurred but don't just attack the liberals. Those that want to restrict abortion rights, homosexual marriages, drug usage, etc. are usually labelled as conservatives so the "parenting" aspect is not just on the side of liberals.

 

That is why I tend to reject those labels and when I see people use those words pejoratively I chuckle. Give me an issue and I usually can tell you where I stand on it. However, I'm flustered in trying to label my views as liberal or conservative.

[Fat Old Guy]

" Those that want to restrict abortion rights,"

 

No one has been able to explain to me why it is okay to kill an unborn baby but not okay to kill a convicted murderer.