Cradle of Liberty Council loses land deal with Philadelphia

[evmori]

MarkNoel,

Never said discrimination against gays was OK. All I said was you can't compare racial discrimination with gay discrimination. Being gay is a choice (I know you don't agree with this). A person has no choice as to their skin color.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[NJCubScouter]

I read that article at newsgleaner.com (complete with a rather familiar-sounding response from a reader, and an Internet search on the reader's name appears to confirm the suspicion.) I think that the article and the statements made by the council exec. v.p. are unclear at best. After reading it twice, I still have no idea about what the council is planning to do, or if the city has agreed to anything, other than that the council needs to adopt a non-discrimination statement that national would not approve of. The reference to the Greater New York council is interesting, I am not sure how that council could have adopted a statement like that and not face the same threats from national that Cradle of Liberty did.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

 

Here's a long article on the CofL situation:

http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/article.asp?ArtID=6396

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

After about three years, the city is finally ending the Cradle of Liberty council's $1/year lease:

 

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/local/15096235.htm

 

City poised to evict Boy Scouts council

 

Mayor Street will evict the Boy Scouts's Cradle of Liberty Council from its city-owned Center City headquarters, or make the organization pay fair-market rent, unless it stops discriminating against gays.

 

The mayor's intention - which would apparently bring to an end a dispute that has been roiling for more than three years over scouting's policies toward gays - was made clear in a letter written by City Solicitor Romulo L. Diaz Jr. to William T. Dyer III, president and chief executive officer of Cradle of Liberty Council.

 

"For several years, we have attempted to convince the Cradle of Liberty Council that its discriminatory policies are untenable and violate express City policy and law," reads the letter. "Regrettably, we have been unable to obtain adequate assurances that the Boy Scouts will not, while headquartered on City property, discriminate."

 

The letter goes on to say: "We believe that ejectment, subject to a fair-market rent agreement, is an appropriate measure that recognizes the many contributions made by your organization."

 

The council serves 87,000 members in Philadelphia, Montgomery and Delaware Counties, and is the third-largest in the country.

 

"Until we've had time to put this in front of our attorneys and decision makers, it really isn't appropriate for me to comment," Dwyer said yesterday.

 

Dwyer said, however, that the letter had surprised him because he believed the two sides "were still working."

 

Cradle of Liberty Council spokesman Jeff Jubelirer had more pointed views.

 

"With an epidemic of gun violence taking the lives of Philadelphia's children every day," Jubelirer said, "it is ironic the administration chose this time to destroy programming that services 40,000 children in the city."

 

Stacey L. Sobel, executive director of Philadelphia's Center for Lesbian and Gay Civil Rights, said members of her organization had worked with the city and the local Boy Scout Council during negotiations.

 

"This is a long-standing issue with the Boy Scouts," she said. "We're pleased that the city is taking action."

 

She said her group would prefer that the Boy Scouts not discriminate at all. But "if they are going to discriminate, the taxpayers shouldn't be subsidizing it," Sobel said.

...

 

[Eamonn]

"The Boy Scouts have been headquartered on nearly a half acre near Logan Circle at 22d and Winter Streets since 1928, when City Council voted in favor of letting the Philadelphia Boy Scouts use the property rent-free "in perpetuity."

Did the Scout Oath change?

Isn't the Scout Oath the same as it was in 1928?

While I don't have a problem with the BSA paying it's own way.

It does seem that the city council has a hard time keeping it's promises.

Maybe if the Boy Scouts knew that "in perpetuity." was a meaningless term, they could have moved a long time ago?

Maybe they wouldn't have spent as much money as they have maintaining and improving the building?

I'm not a lawyer, but it would seem to me that the City Council does owe the Boy Scouts.

I of course have not read the agreement. But maybe the term breech of contract seems fitting?

Eamonn.

 

 

[nldscout]

My guess is that this is only the opening scene of another protracted court fight. If they were given free use in perpituity, and have it in writing then its likely they may win this battle.

 

either way, its long from being deceided.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

"In perpetuity" in a lease does not mean forever; it simply means the lease doesn't need to be renewed periodically (like an apartment lease which typically must be renewed every year). All such leases have other ways to end, like 30 or 60 days notice. According to this article from 2003, it's a 1 year notice:

http://www.newsgleaner.com/site/index.cfm?newsid=10287924&BRD=2340&PAG=461&dept_id=488595&rfi=8

or

http://tinyurl.com/ecxde

...

The Council's Center City headquarters was built in 1929, after City Council had passed a resolution the year before allowing the Boy Scouts free use of the land in perpetuity. However, the city reserved the right to take back the land, provided it gave the Scouts one year's notice.

...

[Hunt]

The article Merlyn cites suggests that the building is used only to administer Learning for Life. I thought Learning for Life didn't violate the anti-discrimination policy?

But in any case, I think BSA is better off out of these situations.

[evmori]

"In perpetuity" in a lease does not mean forever

 

Hmmm.

 

The condition of an estate that is limited so as to be inalienable either perpetually or longer than the period determined by law.

 

Hmmmm.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10