Cradle of Liberty Council loses land deal with Philadelphia

[berkshirescouter]

"and besides, it looks like Michael Jackson has made being white a lifestyle choice, so maybe the two aren't so far apart... "

In fact Michael Jackson has a skin condition called Vitiligo (spelling) it removes skin color so that is not a lifestyle choice.

[acco40]

What part of "joke" was difficult to understand?

 

Being Jewish is also a lifestyle choice for many.

 

(Sorry, just wanted to stir the pot and start the religion vs. race debate!)

[cjmiam]

Oh good! I see the lifestyle issue is alive and well here. My question seems to have gone unanswered in the other thread. Maybe I can be enlightened here. If tomorrow the evening news reports that a Berkley scientist has determined that through careful studies, he has determined that he has been a pedophile from birth, does that mean he gets to join the Boy Scouts too? We certainly dont want to discriminate against him now do we? And if he was born with it, then it must be okay. There certainly isnt a problem with him being around children, because if he was born that way it must be natural. Therefore theres no reason to protect children from him or other pedophiles, because theres simply nothing wrong with it. He was born that way dont ya know.

 

And on a side note I know some you professionals out there are gonna take issue with me for this, but my troop doesnt necessarily need you. Now I understand that Cub packs might be a bit more dependant upon local executives keeping continuity, but overall the Scouting program at the unit level will run just fine without the local council office. We can just send all of our paperwork to the national office. And we can order our supplies online. Sure you can keep a few professionals around, but hey, many councils had them working out of their own houses for years. My point to all of this? Scouting is too strong to far apart because of a lack of funding at the council level. My troop does not depend on the council for financial assistance. We utilize council owned camping facilities, and process paperwork and advancement through them, but thats about it. If liberals think they can win by taking down local council offices, theyre crazy. But then they are crazy anyways, so I guess that should be of no surprise to anyone.

 

And one other side note to the general notion presented by Melyn. You seem to be making a case that the Cradle of Liberty caved to pressure from the national office. Excuse me, but I believe they actually caved to the political pressure of a bunch of liberal activists first. And furthermore, any organization or program that cannot survive on its own should go away. This also should include every single liberal bureaucratic entitlement or redistribution of wealth program that the government has to offer as well. If they cant raise their own money without taking mine, then they dont need to exist. They can go have a bake sale or something.

 

cjmiam

[evmori]

You can't compare race (which no one has control over) to lifestyle (which everyone has control over.) Religion maybe. Compare one lifestyle to another! One race to another! One religion to another! You can't compare the homosexual lifestyle to being black. That black person had no choice when they were born. The homosexual did.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[OldGreyEagle]

As I have proven time and time again, I have a superficial knowledge about a lot of stuff, and a firm grasp on very little, so I will again need help with this. Where is Mark David Chapman? Where is John Hinckley? Where is Charles Manson?

[evmori]

In prison.

[Twocubdad]

Actually, Hinkley is in a mental institution and has recently applied for unsupervised furloughs to visit his parents.

 

Dare I ask? What's your point.

[OldGreyEagle]

The point is, that when our society, as immoral, corrupt and valueless as some make it out to be, identifies someone who is a proven danger to others, they are put away. Even if the people are certifiably mentally ill. The process isnt perfect, but people who do bad things to other people do get locked up. personally I dont care if they are mentally ill or what, I dont care if they go to an asylum or a prison, as long as they arent out amoungst us.

 

Now, what has this got to do with the price of coffee in Bethlehem?

 

Well, for a long time now, and I am not sure exactly where it started, I keep reading about how homosexuality has been removed from the list of psychological disorders/diseases and how long before the pedaphiles make the case that they arent really bad, they were just born this way and its not their fault, etc. Well, again, I cant begin to tell you my revulsion at equating homosexuality with pedophilia.

 

If you feel homosexuality is wrong, thats your right and I cant debate it with you because you are not going to change and neither am i , but do not begin to tell me that our society will ever accept pedophilia as "normal". No one tried to make the case that Paula Poundstone was just a victim of her birthright. There are Meagan's laws all over the country where convicted sex offenders must register with the police. These are not the signs of a society so depraved that it will sacrifice its children to the cause of civl rights or liberties for the sexual fulfullment of others. Mark David Chapman, John Hinckley and Charles Manson may or may not have been born sociopaths, but it doesnt matter, they are now where they belong as will all child molesters, murderers etc. And its the inept, liberal, goverment wonks who put them there and keep them there.

 

Raising the spectre of pedophilia every time homosexuality is discussed is tossing in a red herring where it dont belong. BSA keeps talking about its gay ban as not a Youth Protection issue, but a role model issue. If thats the debate fine, because I cant remember when an avowed or even closet homosexual molested a boy scout, its always the admired, loving husband of 3 that is cited in newspapers.

 

If you dont want gays in Boy Scouts, Thats one issue, but to equate allowing gays in Boy Scouts as the linchpin that will begin the process that will allow pedophiles free to ply their "trade" wells up words that are not scoutlike so I will just say its "poppycock"

 

 

 

[dsteele]

cjmiam wrote:

 

"And on a side note I know some you professionals out there are gonna take issue with me for this, but my troop doesnt necessarily need you. Now I understand that Cub packs might be a bit more dependant upon local executives keeping continuity, but overall the Scouting program at the unit level will run just fine without the local council office."

 

Obviously, I don't agree. All units have their ups and downs. Also, a council is much more than it's office and professional staff. It's commissioner service, training, advancement, etc. volunteers as well. These are all locally delivered services of a council.

 

Sorry for the interruption -- now returning to the debate

 

DS

[cjmiam]

OGE,

 

"... but do not begin to tell me that our society will ever accept pedophilia as "normal"."

 

I wonder if someone wouldn't have said the same thing about homosexuality oh say maybe 50 years ago...

[OldGreyEagle]

Cj,

 

I apologize I was not able to communicate my thoughts to you. In the barest essence pedophilia always has a victim and this is recognized by every court, jurisdiction , government branch in the land. A homosexual liason between two adults produces no such victim (open to interrpretation and debate I am sure).

 

While I may get tired of the government or other institutions peering in to bedrooms to assess if what adults consensually do to each other is "right" or "wrong", I dont see society, especially one who does everything "for the kids, after all they are our future" to a point where I want to say enough already the little darlings aren't gods ever allowing pedophilia to not be a crime.

[cjmiam]

But what if it turns out to be just a natural act of love inherent in certain human beings from birth? And if its consensual and the parents give permission whats wrong with that? In other words there are no victims. Ah yes, I see an entirely new culture starting. A culture with no moral absolutes. A culture where you make up the rules as you go based on whats convenient. A culture of if it feels good, do it. Oh wait, that culture is already here!

[OldGreyEagle]

Our Society has shown that even when parents are complicit, the state stills has control over children as seen when children are taken away from unfit parents or when parents with hold medical treatment (see Utah, although that was extreme and may not have been warranted). Parents who leave children home alone are vilified by the media. The state has an interest in the physical and emotional well being of a child, I just dont see pedophiles encroaching on that.

[littlebillie]

re: pedophilia, from scoutings real gay policy thread

 

"What if some scientist says pedophiles are born that way? Well, I think there's precedence for this. There are people who are "born" more aggressive, but when that aggression expresses itself in murder or maiming - well, the "I was just doing what comes natural" argument isn't going to fly. Nor does it work for statutory rape. So frankly, i think that's more of a red herring than a red flag. "

 

As has been wisely pointed out, the "consenting adults" rule does not extend to children (save emanicpated minor)s. even where a social norm (kids who count their years in single digits are wed in some parts of the world), and including such sanctioned relationships, virtually all societies operating above a subsistence level protect their children fiercely. (I choose not to address empoverished actions of desperation, slavery, and the selling of daughters into prostitution - i do not believe these are actions made in fully reasoned choice or in keeping with anyone's religion. that'd all be a topic for another board, I think.)

 

Protection - that's part of what Scouting's about - by training and empowering our youth, we can help them protect themselves, fend for themselves, when we're not around.

 

But sadly, even on the straight side of the pedophilia question, we don't seem to really address things head on. Yeah - don't talk to strangers, sure, we tell our kids that. But we seem to have a sense that warning kids about pedophiles in any kind of explicit fashion robs them of some innocence.

 

Even when NAMBLA hit national journals, there was a whole BUNCH o' backpeddling when the message that "we're not putting up with any o' THAT crap, buddy" came thru loud and clear from all across America, even from within their own professional ranks. FLIP SIDE OF THAT IS, do not equate NAMBLA with that nice gay family down the street, with the two kids. That's like saying some dirty old man messing with a minor girl is representative of all straights, isn't it? that's part of pedophilia too - and it's all ugly and unconscionable.

 

CULTURE is part of the human animal, and it is culture that transcends the individual and puts the brakes on certain things.

 

It's our culture that will keep pedophilia of whatever color from becoming accepted.

 

 

[Laurie]

This is sad, very sad. I am part of this council, and I am glad to be. However, every time a thread begins in discussion of the politics and policies regarding this council, it turns to talk of pedophilia, NAMBLA, and the like. This is NOT what the Cradle of Liberty Council is. It is more than an issue, more than a hot potato in the world of politics right now. It is made up of people--of the boy who doesn't seem to quite "get it" in school but is always a winner in a program designed for success, of the boy who learns to reach out to another when he used to be too timid to do so, of the little boy caught up in a custody battle who finds a fun and safe place to escape that battle for awhile each week, of the dad who didn't realize how much fun it could be to spend with his son until he became a leader and got to work side by side with him, of the little boy facing cancer or the little one facing the loss of a parent who gets a bit of normalcy in the den setting. It is made up of these people, each one that I could put a name to, and they are a part of the BSA because they like the program. THAT is what Cradle of Liberty is. Sorry for sounding preachy here, but the thing is, this council has faces that I see. It's far more than an "issue". And I just can't help but feel terribly sad about the way it is now seen.(This message has been edited by Laurie)