Alchohol in Cooking

[mk9750]

In another thread, mention was made of marinading in wine. It reminded me of a bit of a controversy our Troop found itself in a few years ago.

 

We tend to cook in one of two manners: Very simple (hot dogs on a stick), or very elaborate (smoked pork roast, veal parmesean). Every elaborate meal our guys cook comes from either our Troop cookbook, or from a recipe they bring from home (which, once a year, we vote whether to add to the Troop cookbook).

 

For one campout, one Scout brought a recipe for a meat based Spagetti sauce that included cooking sherry. While packing for camp, the Quartermaster noticed it and commented. The boy's mom said it was an intergral part of the recipe, and that if it couldn't go in, there was no sense in making the recipe. The SM agreed to let it go.

 

At camp, the campmaster strolled through camp while dinner was being prepared. He spotted the sherry, and a very heated debate ensued between he and the SM, ending just short of us being thrown out of camp.

 

I think we all know that alchohol is not permitted. And we have become more vigilant about monitoring ingredients before we leave for a campout. but under the circumstances as described, what is everyone's opinion?

 

By the way, the sauce was VERY good, although I'm not so sure I could tell one way or the other that sherry was in there.

 

Mark

[Fat Old Guy]

"I think we all know that alchohol is not permitted."

 

Actually, the G2SS doesn't say that. It says that the use of alcholic beverages is prohibited. A beverage is something that is intended to be drunk, very few intend to drink cooking sherry hence it is not a beverage.

[Bob58]

FOG, Thamnks for the (un)common sense. At a religious committe meeting recently a leader raised the question of whether it was appropriate to Celebrate a Catholic Mass in camp since the Church now recommends communion be rec'd in both forms (bread & wine.) My short answer was there is no reason not to have a religious celebration but elect to limit receiving from the to the priest. (This was common for many years.) My local curmudgeon then asked how one would keep the boys from the wine outside of Mass. Some people aren't happy unless they making other people confused or unhappy.

 

Bob

[acco40]

Ah yes, common sense. When cooking with alcohol, most (if not all) of the alcohol content is burned off. If I ran the zoo (was SM) for that troop, I would have made sure the other parents were informed about the culinary delights and if okay with them, gone forward with using the sherry.

[Twocubdad]

I think most cooking sherry either has no alcohol or has enough salt added to it to make it unfit to drink. But the bottle should be clearly marked 0% alcohol, which should have satisfied the ranger.

 

But let's assume the sherry did have alcohol in it. The obvious problem is the boys having a bottle of sherry in their posession during the campout. How do we know all of it made it into the sauce? That's very different from the priest keeping the sacramental wine with him. The SM made a error in judgement allowing it. I really have a problem with the mom's attitude. There are plenty of recipies which don't need sherry.

 

This just strikes me as a can of worms which doesn't need to be opened.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

[OldGreyEagle]

Depending on how far the cars are from the campsite, I could see keeping the bottle in the Scoutmasters trunk before and after use as a compromise.

 

BTW: Those who sneak quick "sip" of cooking sherry will receive retribution in the form of tatebud punishment usually reserved for those who try to eat unsweetened bakers chocolate.

 

::shivering at remembering BOTH experiences::

[kasane]

Our troop found itself in a similar situation a few years ago. One of the boys brought a recipe for a spaghetti sauce that required wine as one of the ingredients (not sherry or cooking wine, but actual wine).

 

The sauce was made at home by the father and the boy brought the sauce in a container and added it to the spaghetti (his turn to cook for the patrol). By all reports the sauce was terrific. The boy then shared the recipe with his patrol and the leaders at the campout. The wine was mentioned. The leaders went uh oh, but underplayed it with the other kids. It appeared to blow over.

 

After the campout, one of the mothers found out about the wine and went ballistic. She complained to the troop committee about alcohol on a campout and the leaders on the campout were reprimanded even though committee members were on the campout and ate the same meal.

 

The irony of this whole matter was that the father who prepared the sauce was a former scoutmaster of the troop (and a very good gourmet cook). The mother who complained about the wine incident to the committee was his wife.

 

Apparently another parent complained to her and she (without all the facts, including whose kid it was that did the cooking - hers) went straight to the committee to complain about leaders "drinking wine" on a campout.

 

Needless to say, recipes were veted a little more carefully after that.

 

 

[Rooster7]

I don't have a problem with the rules. No alcohol makes sense. I'm happy the BSA took this stand.

 

However, from what I've heard described above, these folks like to stir the pot. I think the response in both cases, could have been more diplomatic and discreet. There's no need to attack folks like theyre "drug pushers", unless you're ultimate goal is to cut a swathe through your adult leadership. In my view, these kinds of emotional responses by adults (accusatory, running to the committee and making ultimatums, etc.) are more often about troop politics or ones low self-esteem.

 

[le Voyageur]

 

Here's a thought that'll add a wee bit more confusion to this topic. Consider this, there is more alcohol in a small bottle of cough syrup (25%) than in a pint of cooking sherry (between 1.5% up to 6%)...now, should we leave the cough syrup out of the first aid kit because the rules say no alcohol???

 

 

[Twocubdad]

You don't see a difference, le V.? Unless of course you want to claim that the sherry is for medicinial purposes. And we do have rules for securing medicines which apparently weren't followed.

 

Look, I'm no tee-totaller, but someone did mention common sense earlier. It's common sense (and policy) that Scouts don't bring alcohol on a campout with them. It's also common sense (and maybe a little 8th grade science) that previously cooked spaghetti sauce doesn't contain any alcohol.

[SM406]

A little more for-thought about where they were going would have been better also. It sounds like they went to a BSA camp, if so they should have postponed the meal until they were at a non BSA facility. They also put the Campmaster in a compromising position (unintentional I know) none the less, how else was the Campmaster to react?

 

SM406

[mk9750]

And again, great responses show me I've left a few points unclear.

 

It was the campmaster who had the problem with the sherry being at his camp (there's an endorsement for disallowing possesive words in Scouting!). This happened over a year ago, and although we didn't make it a big issue, none of our parents had any complaints. One commented that they were suprised that the adults don't bring a bottle of wine to share with some of the gourmet meals the boys prepare.

 

It is the practice of the boys in our Troop to make things "from scratch" at the campsite. If a meal of this magnitude was planned, and a Scout brought premade sauce, he'd never hear the end of it (well, that's an exageration, but I think you know what I mean). It is a real badge of honor for our boys to make everything at camp. If they were going to bring premade sauce, it would be Prego.

 

I understand the opinion of one poster who thought the reaction of the mom was a bit strong. It isn't unusual though, that someone defends their recipe vehemently. I recall when my son was doing cooking MB, he was making a lunch that included a baked potato soup that his mom gave him. It really is fantastic. Tastes just like a real baked potato. The SM wandered under the dining fly and sampled the soup. He came over and mentioned to me that it tasted burned, and that if it were him, he would add more salt. It being my wife's recipe, I was indignant. I said "It's supposed to taste a little burnt. That's the "Baked" part of the soup. And if it were me, I'd keep my nose out of other people's recipes!"

 

After lunch, I mentioned the conversation to my son. His reaction? "Oh my gosh, I forgot the salt!"

 

Needless to say, I was a tad embarassed.

 

Mark

[saltheart]

I guess I have to wonder why this is even being discussed. The semantics of beverage vs. something else (that still contains consumable alcohol) is silly at best. Keep it out of Scouting. If a recipe calls for it, find another recipe. Cook with it, or consume it, at home, not in a Scouting venue. If the boys are to learn how to cook with a substance they shouldn't legally be handling under the age of 18 in the first place, let them do it at home, and keep it there.

[Fat Old Guy]

" If the boys are to learn how to cook with a substance they shouldn't legally be handling under the age of 18 in the first place, let them do it at home, and keep it there. "

 

Legally handling? Where I grew up, cooking sherry was found in the same section of the supermarket as vinegar and anyone could buy it. As someone else pointed out, it is undrinkable by anyone but those who would also drink Sterno.

 

The rules do not prohibit it, it isn't a beverage. I don't even think that it is taxed the same way that regular wine is.

 

" My local curmudgeon then asked how one would keep the boys from the wine outside of Mass."

 

This reminds me of a time that a diabetic was told that he shouldn't let any of the Scouts see him take an injection because they'd get the idea that drugs are okay.

 

[evmori]

Got a feeling this started with my post in the other thread.

 

The steak is basted in the burgendy wine marinade at the grocers then packaged. If the Scouts want to try drink the excess marinade so be it! There isn't enough to worry about!

 

BUT - if the marinade was applied post grocer, what is the problem with having it prepared ahead of time, placed in a container & brought to camp. That way it would be used for its intended purpose & the worry that the Scouts would drink it would be gone!

 

Yep the G2SS says no alcholic beverages. Common sense tells me what this means is no beer, wine, malt beverage or alcohol is to be brought on a camping trip with Scouts if the purpose of bring this type of beverage is for consumption other that cooking - AKA drinking. That's a no-no & should not be tolerated!

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10(This message has been edited by evmori)