Unreasonable treatment by BSA

[Yak_Herder]

To review, CRANEACE asked:

"Is there anyone who is willing to share, omiting names of course, situations where BSA or BSA representatives have either misused their position, taken bribes to give out Eagles, removed scouts without just cause, or any other matter that seems discrimmatory, (one is allowed to do it but not another) unfair or unreasonable treatment toward scouts. I'm not talking about gay or agnostic issues. Information is needed for a research paper and will remain confidential."

 

I am perfectly willing to "share". The trouble is, in all of my years in Scouting, some 32 years now, I have never had occassion to observe anything of the kind.

 

I have found Scouters to be wonderfully committed and dedicated individuals, widely varied in talent and ability but all working hard to do three very straightforward things; build character, teach citizenship and encourage fitness.

 

CRANEACE: Will that statement appear in your "research paper" or be quoted on some anti-BSA website?

[CRANEACE]

No antiBSA website.

Thank you for pointing out that many of you have had nothing but good experiences in BSA. Others perhaps have not had the same. Just looking for a sampling, but I guess it was sort of thoughtless not to consider that most people on this forum would be pleased with their experiences. It was just a thought. There are plenty enough anti-BSA sites and I don't condone that either.

[Bob White]

One of the biggest problems I have with Craneaces request is the term BSA or BSA representative. The BSA is a program, I do not see how an educational method can perform any of the acts he suggests.

 

BSA representative is the other problem, define who a BSA repesentative is. I can tell you who they are not. Program volunteers are NOT BSA representatives. Nowhere has the BSA entitled a volunteer to act as a representative of the scouting program. We are program leaders not representatives for the national movement.

 

Even within the Council only the Scout Executive (correct me if I am wrong DS) is a legal representative of the BSA and authorized to sign contracts as such. Even at the national level, simply being a paid employee does not make you a representative. So who in fact is Craneace asking about? I'm not sure.

[evmori]

Bob,

Anyone who is registered with the BSA in any capacity is a represenative of the BSA. I think the poster is referring to the paid professionals in the BSA.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

Ed

I would be interested in seeing your source of that information, or is it just your opinion?

 

In fact let's give it a field test. Make a statement to the media as "a representative of the Boy Scouts of America" and lets see what your scout executive says to you.

 

Your uniform represents the scouting program. Your actions might be viewed by some people as a representation of the program, but you are a member, not a representative, of the BSA.

 

Bob White

 

 

[AnneinMpls]

Many apologies folks...I didn't know that my back button would resubmit the posting.

Peace out,

Anne in Mpls

(Don't encourage her! She'll just say it again!)

("Looking for a sampling"? No, first you determine your sampling method, and then you obtain your samples. Ethically. Either with full disclosure or with a firmly defended and approved research proposal requiring non-disclosure. Hence my asking whether you've put anything before your IRB)

[evmori]

No source, Bob. Just common sense. You put on the uniform you represent Scouting whether you want to or not. When people see you they see the BSA.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[packsaddle]

I have plenty of criticisms but nothing, I think, that would qualify for the original query. That's good isn't it?

[SR540Beaver]

Bob,

 

So it would be OK for me and a few other scouters to wear our uniforms into a strip bar to celebrate getting our Wood Badge beads since we don't represent the BSA? My guess is your answer would be.....NO. I hope you understand that people are speaking of representing the BSA in the spirit of the law rather than the letter of the law.

[Bob White]

Craneace used the phrase " BSA representatives have either misused their position" Who is he considering to be a BSA representative? There is a difference between representing the program and representing the non-profit corporation.

 

As unit volunteers we are subscribers to the BSA program. If you subscribe to Time Magazine are you a representative of Time Inc. or a representative of people who subscribe to Time?

 

As a leader of a local unit are you representative of other scouters or are you a representative of the BSA?

 

Several posters took his phrase to mean any volunteer member. I would not want an adult who would wear a scout uniform to a strip club to be viewed as either a representative of the program or of the BSA as a corporate entity. As a volunteer we represent the program, we are not authorized to represent the BSA movement.

 

If Craneace is including any volunteer in his definition of BSA representative then we have a real problem. We have folks in uniform from all walks of life, all educational and social backrounds. Many have never taken the time to attend training and some who have taken training and ignore it. Would you want them to be included as representatives of the BSA.

 

The vast numbers of errors made in the program are made by volunteers. That is not a slam on volunteers it's just a statistical reality. volunteers outnumber professionals by some 10,000 to 1. Even the problem that prompted Craneace to start this thread was created by volunteers and their families not by a representative of the BSA.

 

I just want come clarity established as to the difference between being a representative of the BSA and representing the scouting program.

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Scoutmaster Ron]

Bob,

 

Unfortunatly anyone in uniform is going to be seen as a rep of the organization. It is quite clear what Craneface is looking for. Instead of looking at the positives of the program ie: how it turns youth around that may be faced in the wrong idrection or how taking their Lifesaving merit badge actually DID save someones life

He clearly wants to dig up some dirt and publish it, he'll probably put his own little twist on it.

I would like to know what fish wrap he writes for. What's his real intent?

[packsaddle]

Scoutmaster Ron, what you suggest seems implausible to me. If someone wanted to 'get the dirt' on BSA, why search in a forum where most of the participants actively support scouting? I could be wrong, but to me it seems like it would require apocalyptic stupidity on his part.

[lasteagle83]

Somehow CRANEACE's request for info is reminiscent of Connie Chung's famous interview with Newt Gingrich's mother, when she "off the record" asked her what Newt thought of Mrs. Clinton. The recorder was going in spite of Ms Chung's assurances that it was "just between us". For those of you who don't remember that exchange, let's just say Newt's alleged opinion of Bill's wife rhymed with something that needed to be scratched. Journalistic integrity bites the dust when a juicy sound bite is imminent; I'm afraid we may all have played into this by keeping this thread going so long.

 

Would it be in our collective best interest to move on to another subject?(This message has been edited by lasteagle83)

[Scoutmaster Ron]

Packsaddle-just like you said "most" support scouting on this forum he's just trying to find the one person. Who's to know if he's looking elsewhere also.

 

 

[packsaddle]

Interesting, his recent lack of response. Maybe he's off camping.