CRANEACE Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 Is there anyone who is willing to share, omiting names of course, situations where BSA or BSA representatives have either misused their position, taken bribes to give out Eagles, removed scouts without just cause, or any other matter that seems discrimmatory, (one is allowed to do it but not another) unfair or unreasonable treatment toward scouts. I'm not talking about gay or agnostic issues. Information is needed for a research paper and will remain confidential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 If you were to look down the list of old threads in the "Open Discussion" topic, and maybe also in this topic, you would find a number of threads in which people have discussed situations in which other Scouters have allegedly (note that word) acted unreasonably, unfairly, vindictively, nepotistically (I may have made that word up) unsafely, perhaps corruptly (though I do not recall reading of actual "bribes"), and in all sorts of other undesirable and sometimes prohibited ways. The initial question or scenario is often followed by a series of responses in which some other forum members try to answer the question that has been asked, while others seek to speculate about additional, or mitigating, or contradictory facts that they think might have taken place in the situation, which often seem to be based on their own experiences or attitudes. What you have to understand about all these threads, and any other "stories" that might be added to this thread, is that you are only getting one side of the story. (Well, as I suggest above, often you get multiple sides of the "story" but only one provided by a person who actually knows any of the facts.) Sometimes the information is second-hand, sometimes it has been relayed through a boy who is upset about something, so caution is indicated. Sometimes the information is perfectly accurate. Sometimes it is "slanted." My attitude has always been to just assume that the information is accurate and respond accordingly, unless it is blatantly and obviously false, self-contradictory, or seems be describing creatures from another planet rather than human beings. But I would use great caution before using any of these "stories," or any others that might be added to this thread, for "research." There is no way to "test" their accuracy, so your outcome would not be "scientific." I also want to add this: Even if you were to collect a whole bunch of true examples of "bad behavior" by adult leaders, I am not sure what it would prove. Other than the fact that adult Scout leaders are human beings, subject to the same failings as people in every other type of endeavor, including youth groups, businesses, government, religious and civic organizations, and every other "enterprise" that depends on imperfect beings (that's us) to accomplish its mission. You would also learn that different people can see the same situation differently. If you need to write a reseach paper on something, I might consider seeking a different topicc. since there is no way to "tes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRANEACE Posted September 1, 2003 Author Share Posted September 1, 2003 Thanks for the advise. The topic is not isolated to BSA, just thought I'd use this communication to gather information. Research is being gathered on how large organizations including corporations and religious institutions, respond to allegations of and against their members and how they handle the outcome of their responses or verdicts as it may be . . .. Other organizations are being studied also . . . this one is my assignment. I'll look through the other threads also, but I hope that others will post something here too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 A research paper? Does that mean it will include a bibliography? How does three stories of Boy Scout leader malfeasance by OldGreyEagle of Scouter.Com give your paper any more credibility than if you used Jayson Blair as a source? You recently posted here regarding a scout whose Eagle was taken away under murky circumstances, you were supposed to call Irving and get a straight story, what did you find out? Where you doing research then and didnt tell us for some reason, or is this a new project? Before I lend a sharpening stone, I would like to know why the axe needs to be ground Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRANEACE Posted September 1, 2003 Author Share Posted September 1, 2003 OGE, More information was gathered from Irving. No that was not a "research" paper. As above, BSA is not the only organization we are looking at. . . . Bibliography . . . of course. IT is not the intention to descredit any BSA affiliate, just to gather information regarding reaql life situations that may appear "unfair" or "unreasonable", or such treatment that is even contrary to the organizations own policy. . . We will consider any items "allegations" and realize that we may not have all the facts. It sounds like you have something(s) to share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 Just who is "WE" anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FScouter Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 Anecdotes posted on an internet bulletin board could hardly be considered real life situations. It is irresponsible to compile a collection of unsubstantiated allegations and call that research. You have already expressed your contempt for BSA, and frankly it sounds like youre on a witch hunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
le Voyageur Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 Well, lets see,.... a few summers back when I was at Mensinger, the S.E. "bribed" the entire camp staff with an all you can eat pizza party for running an outstanding summer camp program. Overall, that was one great S.E. who I had a lot of respect for since he was pro camp... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eamonn Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 Over the years I have heard of people who have not followed all the rules and may have over stepped the mark. I have never heard of a bribe that was offered or taken. If anything most of the Advancement Chairs. That I know have gone above and beyond to help a Lad reach the rank. Eamonn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRANEACE Posted September 1, 2003 Author Share Posted September 1, 2003 Not looking for witches. and I do know a Scout Exec who took a "donation" of $2500 and then signed off on an Eagle project that no board wanted to. No contempt . . . some bad experiences. I hear things on talk radio, have seen things posted here also, have had experiences with good and bad leadership, in BSA and elsewhere, which is pretty much the way life is . . . and no one said that research is foolproof . . . just research. . . if you have nothing of this type to post to this thread, then don't . . but please don't criticize if YOU don't know what's going on. That seems a little biased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LovetoCamp Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 Whirrrrrrrrr, Grzzzzzzzzzz, that's the sound of an axe starting to grind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 I am not sure I am up to speed on all the forms of leadership, but before anyone gives any information, wouldnt it be nice to know just who it is that is receiving the info? And you are correct, we dont know what's going on, so we should do what? Blindly trust you? Homey dont play that tune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saltheart Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 I don't know who you are. I know nothing about you. And I have no idea who and where you might use the information given here, if it's given at all. And because I don't know you, I don't know how information gleaned from this site might be used by you. You may be the nicest, most diligent, and upstanding type of person I might ever meet. But meet we must before I would divulge information of that sort to anyone asking. And meeting for the reasons put forth in the OP are not something I'd do. If I had a problem with the BSA that could be defined in any of the qualifications you put forth, I would be keeping it to myself, and within the circle involved. I, for one, think your request is very much out of place in this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRANEACE Posted September 2, 2003 Author Share Posted September 2, 2003 You don't have to "trust" me. Once you post it, the information is public. If you don't have anything to post regarding the subject then don't post anything. Obviously, you are not individual who we are seeking information from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 Craneface, What you are doing is fishing for rumors and inendo in order to discrdit the BSA and or others. It is being done in an unreliable and irresponsible method. I hope you will abandon this personal mission of vengence that it appears to be. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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