Charter pulled

[acco40]

Bob White,

 

Thanks for the reply. In my council, we have a Scout Executive/CEO, his assistant, a Director of Field Operations and Program Director, & Finance Director. What exactly is a Council President?

 

(I'm never embarassed to show my ignorance on-line!)

[NJCubScouter]

Acco, I know you asked BobWhite, but I'm pretty sure I know this answer. The Council President is a volunteer (unlike all the other positions listed, which are professional positions) who is the head of the Council Executive Committee, which oversees the operations of the council. He/she is part of the Council "Key 3" which also includes the Scout Executive and Council Commissioner.

[Fat Old Guy]

"First off Merlyn I don't care for your tone of "Atheiest army brat". None of my post were derogatory to you or your views."

 

Most atheists are intent on explaining why, in as rude terms as possible, why you are foolish for believing in God. It is the bravado of the fightened man, they figure that if the yell loudly enough about how silly we are, that eventually they will convince themselves that they are right.

 

Something that I find interesting about atheists is that they celebrate Christmas, Easter, and Thanksgiving. Sort of hipocritical, isn't it?

 

 

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

cary P writes:

I just did a quick check on the BSA website, and I couldn't find anything that states a CO "owns and operates" a BSA unit.

 

It's here:

http://www.scouting.org/factsheets/02-507.html

...

"To support approximately 124,000 Scouting units owned and operated by chartered organizations,"...

 

And, as you say, the chartering organization selects the leadership, and the US government can't discriminate on the basis of religion for the BSA to do that, either.

 

"Should the army practice unlawful religious discrimination and reject someone from a youth group that the army itself "owns and operates"?

"Discrimination? In my eyes yes...Unlawful? No.

 

On what basis? Do you think it would be equally lawful if the military ran youth groups that excluded Jews?

 

Rules in the military state that I can't join the Officers club. Is the discrimanation? yes...Unlawful? no.

 

That isn't discrimination on the basis of religion; I'm sure the officers club allows officers who are atheists to join (and, in fact, they would be required to).

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

FOG writes:

Something that I find interesting about atheists is that they celebrate Christmas, Easter, and Thanksgiving. Sort of hipocritical, isn't it?

 

First, not all atheists do.

 

Second, christmas and easter are originally pagan holidays, and given that the bible teaches against following pagan religious rituals, the christians are way ahead in the hypocrisy department.

[Bob White]

Actually Merlyn I do know what an analogy is and you have failed to provide one.

 

In an analogy an inferrence is made that if two or more things share a commonality in some areas they will be common in others.

 

In your example you fail to show a basic common relationship between Judaism or any religion, and that of atheism or the total lack of religious belief. Without that commonality an analogy cannot be drawn in other relationships.

 

What if the BSA disallowed Jews? The fact is thay do not. What if cats really had nine lives? It's an irrelevent arguement since they do not.

 

The fact is the the ACLU has been unsuccessful now and in the past to affect the Scouting program.

 

Bob White

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

bob white writes:

Actually Merlyn I do know what an analogy is and you have failed to provide one.

 

In an analogy an inferrence is made that if two or more things share a commonality in some areas they will be common in others.

 

The analogy in my case being the requirement that the government not discriminate, whether that's against atheists or Jews.

 

In your example you fail to show a basic common relationship between Judaism or any religion, and that of atheism or the total lack of religious belief. Without that commonality an analogy cannot be drawn in other relationships.

 

But there IS a commonality; the government can't practice discrimination against atheists any more than it can practice discrimination against Jews.

 

What if the BSA disallowed Jews? The fact is thay do not.

 

I see you also don't understand hypothetical questions, often a part of analogies.

 

The fact is the the ACLU has been unsuccessful now and in the past to affect the Scouting program.

 

Let's see, did you miss the court striking down the BSA's $1/year lease in Balboa park? Did you miss the post where I mentioned that the 19th circuit court dropped its Troop 19 due to the ACLU? Did you miss the out-of-court settlement where the city of Chicago agreed to drop 28 BSA charters as a result of an ACLU lawsuit?

 

That last settlement lead to the BSA moving Explorers into Learning for Life; that's a pretty big change.

[purcelce]

Meryl, I now see where CO's own and operate the units.

 

But it is still lawful for military units to charter BSA units.

 

"On what basis? Do you think it would be equally lawful if the military ran youth groups that excluded Jews? "

 

Not sure what your wanting here? The military does not run the BSA units, Leaders that agree to follow BSA policies run the units, just like they do in every other BSA unit.

As for military youth groups that would excluded Jews be lawful? It would be unlawful, but the military does not have any youth groups. It sponsors other established Youth Groups like, BSA, GUSA, Little League Baseball, and a lot of others. ...but what does Anti-Semite Military Youth Groups got to do with BSA not allowing Athiest?

 

Atheism is not a religion in my book.

 

As for the Officers Club, I'm a Chistian Master Sergeant. I'm not allowed in there, due to my rank. I'm also single, and I'm not allowed to join the Enlisted Spouses Club. But the thing that gets my goat, is that I'm under 37 years old and I can't play in the Over 40 year old Basketball League at the Base Gym.

 

Meryl, Lets just say we agree that we disagree on this subject. I'm sticking behind the BSA and the U.S. Military. It's been a great partnership for many, many years.

 

The opinions state above are those of Cary P. They are in no way to offend directly or indirectly (with the exception of FOG for his wise cracks about the USAF...He must me a Navy guy )

 

[slontwovvy]

Man, leave for a few hours, and when you get back...

 

Merlyn, by not answering my questions, all you did was affirm my suspicions. I find your hypocrisy truly amazing--espousing "tolerance" toward seemingly anyone except straight white Christian males while stooping to petty name-calling of anyone who does not fall into your lock-step cadence of political correctness. Additionally, you call upon everyone else to answer your questions while you ignore anytime a question of you.

 

I was asking you your opinion on the questions. Looking at your past posts and comparing your ideologies to groups, and considering that your most common liberal source is the ACLU, I think it's a pretty safe assumption that you share many, if not all, of the viewpoints of the ACLU. It is a logical train of thought.

 

Second, my questions were not erroneous--I never stated that whites could not receive scholarships from the UNCF--read my post. Bob Jones admits blacks...your claim is moot.

 

Last, you state "Of course, the whole slant of your questions is just misdirection; if other injustices exist, does this excuse the BSA's dishonesty in chartering discriminatory BSA units to government agencies? No, of course not."

 

Again, you are guilty of not reading, instead letting your own preconceptions get in the way. My questions were not intended to justify any actions of the BSA, but rather an attempt to understand how the broader group of modern liberals can justify these contradictions. I was once fairly liberal, but left the left when I saw these contradictions. Just curious as to how you can justify them. Your silence merely confirms my beliefs.

 

And I'm still curious as to if you've ever attended an actual Scout meeting.

 

Slont

[Fat Old Guy]

"Second, christmas and easter are originally pagan holidays"

 

Not quite right. Christmas and easter replaced pagan holidays. Christmas celebrates the birth of Christ and Easter celebrates his re-birth. The fact that pagans may have has as little significance as a person in Mexico having his birtday on the fourth of July.

 

Even if you were correct, pagans are not atheists so you and yours are still the hipocrites.

[Fat Old Guy]

"It sponsors other established Youth Groups like, BSA, GUSA, Little League Baseball, and a lot of others. .."

 

GSUSA discriminates on the basis of sex but no one ever complains about that. Little League discriminates as well; girls may play LL Baseball but boys may not play LL Softball. Both organizations violate Federal laws. Evidently some forms of discrimination are okay but others are not.

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

 

You're certainly free to sue; Little League didn't start admitting girls voluntarily, that was the result of a lawsuit. Lawsuits can actually change things.

 

slontwovvy, I haven't confirmed any of your suspicions because you've never bothered to find out my actual opinions on other subjects; it's really easy to win arguments by creating straw men and knocking them down, but it doesn't accomplish anything.

[evmori]

Fat Old Guy,

Don't worry. Merlyn will go away as soon as he realizes he is in a no win situation. That's why he continually avoids certain questions!

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[slontwovvy]

All your silence does is prove my points--you don't bother to read what other people say, preferring to stay snug in your hole, so to speak, and, secondly, that you are being silent as an admission that you can't provide a good answer.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

 

I'm not being "silent", I'm explaining why your questions are loaded, and why you are just setting up a straw man to attack by attempting to TELL ME what my opinions ARE, instead of asking me first; there's simply no point in trying to argue with you. Meanwhile, ed mori keeps saying he's asked me a coherent question while refusing to reiterate what it was; if he won't bother to clarify it, I certainly won't bother to try and answer it.

 

If anyone wants to actually debate the legal issues, let me know. I suggest anyone wanting to do so be familiar with court rulings like Torcaso, Everson, etc.