The future of the gay issue

[Zahnada]

The gay issue has surfaced in force recently and there are many new voices in the forum. I'm curious as to how people view the outcome of this controversy and if they feel all this banter actually may serve a purpose. So the actual question:

 

What will the future hold for BSA's position on homosexuals in scouting?

 

I'm sorry to limit it to 5 answers, but that's all I'm allowed. If you want to answer it a different way feel free to respond.

[Eamonn]

Not sure if the line about "Banter" was a question or not?

No, I don't think anything will change in the BSA, because of what is said in this forum.

It does seve as a kind of "Parking Lot" meeting, where the exchange of views is healthy.

My vote was the one (Number 5)where I'm in for the long haul.

Gays or no Gays. Funding or no funding.

At the end of the day we do so much for our user,the youth that we serve. That I can't see me leaving due to this issue.

Do I think it will ever change?

I do think in time it will, but it will be a long, long time - Not in my life time.

We already have other Scout Organizations that do allow homosexuals to be adult leaders. But we also have other Scout Organizations that have allowed girls to be Scouts for years and the BSA, has not followed their lead.

Most other countries, do not have the same system with Charter Partners.

With so many of our Chartered Partners not allowing homosexuals to be members of their organization,and many having very strong feelings,it would be hard to go against their wishes.

I also suspect that many of these organizations have a very influential voice on the Nationl Board. But I have no proff of that and could be very wrong.

To be very honest, I'm getting fed up with hearing about it all.

In my small part of the world, we are doing what we have always done,membership is up. The youth are having fun, and we adults are playing the game, while remembering that it does have have a purpose.

If I were to find that Magic Lamp and get my 3 wishes, I think I would have lots of money, world peace and the end of this stinking gay issue - Maybe not in that order.

Eamonn

[silver-shark]

Zahnada,

 

Unfortunately, this topic will resurface every time that the BSA is portrayed as a discriminating group of gay bashing homophobes. It's as simple as that.

 

Eventually, organizations like the United Way, and the Pew Charitable Trust (I have to admit that I don't know who they are), and probably some others, will go too far and will wake the sleeping dog called the silent majority. That hasn't happened yet but is getting closer every day, and that dog WILL bite them when it is awakened.

 

At some point in time, the banter you mention WILL turn into a rallying cry for that sleeping dog when it is backed too far into a corner.

 

 

[berkshirescouter]

I have said this before; There is local option now, it is the definition of avowed. It appears to range from one other person knows to name in the paper.

 

The sleeping dog is starting to wake up. I have started to see several comments in press and current books stating 'leave the boys alone, enough already' while still giving lip service to the Gay lobby.

Keep up the good work. The boys are the reason we are here.

[littlebillie]

for Cubs, Akela is a leader, and Akela can be a parent. That parent might be gay.

 

Technical question for Bob White - Are gay parents prohibited from signing off on their Cub sons' requirements?

[acco40]

or gay teachers? The answer of course is no. The reason is that teachers and parents, while they may act as Akela, may do so without becoming registered leaders in the BSA.

 

 

[littlebillie]

"The answer of course is no."

 

yeah, see, this is interesting. back in the 70's, when the policy statements were made, gay families weren't even a blip in the screen.

 

of course, things are different today. gay families are out there in increasing numbers, and the BSA will see a population of second class parents building up.

 

what's interesting is that while - theoretically - the whole gender orientation thing is invisible to the boys (yeah, sure!), at least everyone should realize it's an adult-created policy that's polarized public opinion, not something that the boys have really had a hand in, Cozza aside.

 

BUT - when those gay parents are not allowed to participate in their sons' scouting lives to the same degree as other parents - well, that's kind of an in-your-face situation.

 

is there a position statment on this yet, I wonder?

[Rooster7]

In regard to this poll and yet another thread devoted to the "gay issue", I have only one thing to say:

 

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!!!!!

 

I'll stop if you'll stop...

[packsaddle]

littlebillie, Interesting question. How many gay parents do you ever think will have their sons in scouting? I believe it is unlikely that they will ever achieve numbers sufficient to cause changes in program or policy, unless joined by others in the effort. I guess I'm saying that their future will continue to depend on openminded heteros' to make a difference, maybe in the longrun. I don't see much of a change otherwise. I do think change will eventually happen, because of a more open, tolerant, and accepting general population.

[littlebillie]

packsaddle,

 

our first Pack had a couple of Cubs from a 2-dad family. since a) it's NOT the boys that set polciy, and b) the entire orientation thing is NOT to be addressed at all, anyway, then secure gay parents can avail their sons of the much good that is in the program.

 

I can't speak for all of Los Angeles, but I am told that it's not an isolated case.

 

I think you're right about the numbers - though gay family numbers are on the increase, there are still darned few. and of course, only a fraction of those join scouting - so in terms of developing any real clout, it ain't gonna happen, at least not for a LONG time. BUT. Their very presence will have an impact on the hetero rank'n'file, I expect.

 

Over the years, I've notice that being a loving, devoted, nurturing and strongly committed parent seems to win respect beyond or in spite of a number of differences.

 

Anyway, once the dust settles from the latest SCOTUS toe-in-the-pond, if gay marriage becomes legal - well, there'll be a lot more spoons in THIS broth, I'm thinking...

[acco40]

What I feel is over represented in Scouting is the sons of single mothers. Wishing for a strong (or at least some) male influence in their sons life, they turn to scouting.

 

Now when I feel it is over represented, I talking pure numbers, not that I feel they should not belong.

 

I'm not all that aware of how the change in allowing female leaders (Cubmasters, Scoutmasters, etc.) in the BSA came about. I know it occured in the early '70's (ERA time frame) but have no idea if any political pressure or threats of monetary exclusion were wielded. Does anyone see similarities? The same issues were brought up too. Can a female provide a proper role model for young boys/men? Is it proper for a young adult female to lead 17 yr old boys?(This message has been edited by acco40)

[Laurie]

Our Cubmaster said he gets some of his most positive feedback from single moms (regardless of how they ended up single moms) who like that their sons have a positive male role model in their life. I'm the Assistant Cubmaster, and the Cubmaster may move on when his son bridges, but my own opinion is that it would be great to have another man in leadership. As a woman, I can not give the boys what a man can: a *male* role model. A good one, yes (at least I hope so). As part of the troop, I said right up front that I'd love to help, but that I'd like to be available in the ways that would free our male leadership up to interact more with the boys. I said this for the same reason expressed above. That said, I think it's a good thing for the boys to see both men and women working together, and they may only get to see that in a positive light within Scouting. I was a youth leader to highschoolers at age 17, right after graduating high school. Though I was trained, to answer your question, no--IMO it is not a good idea at all for a young woman to have a leadership role to young men. I had boys in my charge who were 18 though still in school, many who were bigger than me (I got picked up and tossed into a pool once--it was funny, but I'm not small--this guy was big!), and many who wanted to challenge me. These teen boys did not respect my authority at all. However, my male co-leader had their respect. It's a tough age for both males and females, and it can be downright awkward to have a young female in leadership over a young male. How, though, does this relate to the homosexual issue being discussed?

[scoutldr]

It relates so far as to illustrate the point that "the only constant is change." The BSA will change, as it has been changing constantly over the years. When the Cub program was introduced, Den Chiefs were in charge of Dens. Den Mothers came later. Then they became "Den Leaders". When I was a Cub, women ran the dens, but men ran the Packs. In the Troops, the women's role was to make sure there were good refreshments at Courts of Honor and to receive their "Mother's Pin". I was an Explorer when our Post went coed in 1970. The trend continued, now we have female Scoutmasters, female "Arrowmen" (Arrowpersons?), and female Scout Executives. Whether you feel this is good or bad is irrelevant...it is change and the evolution will continue as it must. Perhaps it's another example of Natural Selection. Those organizations which adapt and learn to coexist with the changing environment rather than rail against it will be the ones to survive.

[Bob White]

The difference is that what scoutldr has described are program changes and method changes, not values or mission changes. To change the membership regulations will require the members of the National Executive Board (representatives of the country's major religions, American Legions, Moose, VFW, and others) to vote to change the values of scouting. It is not a bet I would put even a little money on happening.

 

Will the program continue to change, absolutely. It will always adjust to meet the learning needs of our youth members. Will the rules on who will be youth members change....well, never say never...but if that's what you are hoping for I wouldn't plan the celebration anytime soon.

 

Bob White

[Laurie]

I left something out--I'm totally in favor of women in the BSA. It is my own decision to have men take the lead when it comes to the boys. We happen to have many men involved; to me that's a good thing, but I understand it's not always possible.

 

With all due respect, I think the only constant is change in society/the world; the values of the BSA certainly seem to have remained constant to me. Here's why I say that:

 

30 years ago when my parents were leaders and my brother began Scouting (he's an Eagle )what took place in pack meetings and then troop events seems to be quite the same as what my sons experience now. At that time, my mom and several other women served at the pack and troop leadership level. Honestly, I have not seen change--not from the role of sister then as mother/leader in scouting. My parents remain in leadership, though in less active roles now, and they see their grandsons now doing what their son did so long ago.

 

But, maybe I'm missing something and it has changed though I personally haven't observed any change. I'm open to hearing what that change(s) might be.