Course reversal in Philly?

[Bob White]

Questioning,

You caught me in kind of a bad mood, so be patient, I will be as clear as I can be in my explanation. You say I am kicking your proof to the curb. Howard you have no proof. You have your memory of what you think the BSA was some 50 years ago. You havent one iota of proof.

 

I have no doubt you were an active and dedicated volunteer. But Howard we have active volunteers today who think they know the scouting program, and they havent a clue. Visit any scout forum and you will see examples of well meaning adults who dont even know the basics of scouting let alone the rules and policies of the infrastructure. Unless they learn differently their memories of the program will be as inaccurate in 45 years as they are today. Thats why these forums can be an asset or a liability depending on the authentication of the information being shared.

 

Howard it may be very difficult to read this, but had the BSA known of your avowed homosexuality you likely would not have received those awards you boast of because you would have removed from the scouting program. Im sorry but those were and are the rules. They never changed.

 

I understand that this is an important issue for you, but shouting louder will not make you right. Your recollection of the program does not match the history of the program.

 

Bob White

 

[captainron14]

Thanks Bob,

As a cub in the 60's and a scout in the 70's we knew next to nothing about what was going on at "National". It wasn't until I served on camp staff that I became aware of challenges to scoutings values. I shudder to think what would have happened to the BSA if we had lost the Supreme Court case. I know for a fact that major sponsors/supporters would have "pulled out" of Scouting leaving a shell behind. Thank God that it did not turn out that way. Scoutings values will prevail.

Why can't the "Pro Gay / Anti- Religon" groups go start their own organization?

What they are trying to do is like a Nazi taking legal action to join and lead the NAACP. All in the name of tolerance! Their moto seems to be: Kill the problem (BSA) to solve the problem (the remake of the BSA).

As to "Questioning" or "Howard" I hope you are no longer involved currently (regestered/and or involved) with any BSA unit. If you are you should be expelled.

Sorry if I strayed too far from the thread.

CR14

 

[scoutldr]

"BSA is the only branch of world scouting to take this stance."

 

I don't know if this is true or not, (especially in Islamic countries), but I will take it at face value. Analyzing this "fact", is it because BSA uses the "Chartered Partner" concept, which I understand is unique to the USA? Is the exclusionary policy really because we believe in "morally straight" and "bad role models", or is it because of the potential massive loss of support from major Chartered Partners such as the LDS church?

 

Most of my youth Scouting was in the Exploring program in the 70s when it became Co-ed. Our chartering organization was a Fire Department/Rescue Squad. Now, the Exploring program has been moved to Learning for Life, so that the governmental agencies can continue to sponsor units and also be non-discriminatory.

 

I have to ask...why is a gay fireman an OK role model for a 14 year old in the LfL program, but he is NOT an acceptable role model as an ASM? Why is it OK to expose our innocent, impressionable children to gay youth in the Explorer Posts, but not in our Venture Crews? If the BSA stands for "timeless values", then why not Corporate-wide? Don't we believe in the same values for ALL youth????

 

If we are about being "morally straight", and other points of the Oath and Law, then why does the BSA only focus on orientation and religion and ignore situations such as those described in other threads (e.g., the ASM who will "knock the block off" anyone who disagrees with him, the adulterers and fornicators (we all know at least one), the wife beaters, the obese, the alcoholics, the racists and bigots, etc). We had a City Councilman who resigned after being convicted of spousal assault. As far as I know, his Eagle badge is still intact (we Scouted together as youth, and being an Eagle was prominent in his campaign materials). Aren't these bad role models, too???? If the Scout Oath and Law were enforced to the max, how many of us would be able to remain?

 

I submit that it's not because we are standing on the moral high ground...it's because the BSA could not survive the loss in units, membership, and financial support if it did not kowtow to the demands of those with the biggest voices and wallets on the Executive Board. So it responds by forming "wholly owned subsidiaries" and then saying "they may be gay or atheist, but they are not really members of the BSA, and we'll keep them away from OUR children." Bullfeathers.

 

 

 

 

 

[packsaddle]

scoutldr, I suspect that your good questions will not be answered. Or at least not be answered well. I have been asking, in different ways, similar questions that relate to one aspect you mentioned. I doubt that this is related to influence based on wallet size alone but I think your assertion of dominance by one group over everyone else is correct. But isn't that obvious? Isn't this common for any organization? I would like for the decision-making process to be made open to the membership. I would like not to have to speculate on who these influential persons are...or what they have said in the meetings to influence these decisions. There may be a list of names but without some accessible record of their arguments and statements, there is little that we can do but complain. Perhaps that is the intent. Remember, this is a private organization that can put you or me out for any or no reason.

[bt01]

It may be time to retire this thread and call it something else. But I am going to put my one cent in. Most parents who have children in cub scouts and boy scouts do not know about the anti gay and relgion stance that national has. They are only intersted in the program that is in the pack or troop.

 

What happened in philly never made it any of the local papers.

[packsaddle]

btps, Thread evolution in progress. Anyway, something you wrote struck home with me. Many years ago as cubmaster, I made the mistake of allowing our local DE to speak at the Blue and Gold banquet. I winced as he presented a shrill diatribe on homosexuals and atheists and how BSA was confronting this menace (I am not exaggerating). While it was comforting to know his days as DE were numbered, that made little difference to several families who summarily left scouts as a result.

I think you are correct. Most families are in for the positive things about the program, the things that are directly beneficial to the boys.

Years later some of those families admitted to me their shock at learning this aspect of BSA at that Blue and Gold. They expressed no regrets in their decisions. The issue and the stance of BSA is 'no-win'. Worst part about it is the boys lose too.