My thoughts on sheath knives.

[le Voyageur]

Matuawarrior

 

Been a wee bit of time since I've camped in Guam...enjoyed looking for those old Japanese hideouts dispite the sword grass.

Also, a friend and I did the first "hike" from the overlook down to Cetti Bay using steel carabiners, and rebar as pitons to repell from....we left a lot of them in place since there was noway to recover them. Wonder if they are still there???

 

[matuawarrior]

le Voyageur

 

I'm not sure if the rebars are still in place. We hike their annually going to Sella Bay and then going around the point to Cetti Bay.

 

It's a great overnight spot.

 

Matua

[evmori]

The summer camp we attend has a ban on sheath knives. While I understand they are a useful tool, there is really no need for a Scout to have one during summer camp. A simple pocket knife will suffice.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Eagledad]

>>The summer camp we attend has a ban on sheath knives.

[matuawarrior]

We don't ban sheath knives at our Summercamp. We restrict it for certain MB's, classes, activities: Camping, Wilderness Survival, camp clearing and Totin chit. We leave it up to the troops and crews to decide.

 

Most pioneering supplies are pre-cut prior to summercamp. This saves time especially in our competitive camp where every minute counts.

 

Matua

[evmori]

Eagledad,

One reason - safety.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

Local rules and individual interpretations of BSA regulations aside, scouts should be learning good decision making. Teaching a scout to bring a tool hiking or camping that is oversized for the purpose, or has no purpose, is not a good life lesson to teach.

 

If Matua's group has a need for a machete, and they have been taught the care, maintenance, and safe use of a machete then should have one. If Ed's group can accomplish the tasks at hand with a pocketknife, and they have learned the care, maintenance, and safe use of a pocketknife, then they should have one.

 

Le Voyageur I think would back me up when I say that a skilled outdoorsman brings what they need, and that function, size and weight are vital elements when choosing gear. A pocketknife is not a good tool for aquatic activities.

 

Big fires, big knives, big flashlights, big stoves, are rarely signs of a skilled camper.

 

Bob White

 

[Eagledad]

Good Morning Ed.

 

What safety issue do they state? I once ask a camp director in another council about the sheath knife restriction. He said it was a Council Policy and did not know why. Nothing was said about safety.

 

We once had a discussion on the safety issue of sheaths hanging on belts, but it was brought out that many adults and scouts are allowed to wear the pocket tools, even flash lights in sheaths.

 

I not challenging you Ed, but saying safety doesnt make sense. I feel it must only be a response to image. I rarely carry a knife and only a small pocket knife if Im alone in the woods. So its not personal. I beleive sheath knives to be as safe, if not a little safer than some of the pocket knives that we consider acceptable.

 

If a camp thinks sheath knives are less safe, fine. But explain how and why. They permit saws, which have the most injuries of scouting woods tools, and axes, which require more skill. But not a sheath knife?

 

Thanks for your reply, have a great scouting day.

 

Barry

 

[evmori]

Eagledad,

Small Scouts & big knives don't mix well. Also, sheath knives are an open blade knife which increases the chance for injury. Plus, there really isn't anything at our summer camp they can be used for that a closed blade pocket knife can't be used for.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[OldGreyEagle]

Remember the thread on Myths taught by Disricts? I think we may have stumbled on another. I was always told a sheath knife was "illegal" in Boy Scouts. I didnt really contest it as a regular (whatever that is) pocket knife was all I ever needed when camping. On Guam, I may have different needs (sic!)

 

I think we can all agree that unless under extreme circumstances (jungles excepted)a two foot bowie knife with a beveled tip razor sharp on both sides with an engraved scene of the Alamo on the 4 inch wide blade probably isnt the best "tool" for a scout to have. A sheath knife properly sized for the task at hand in the hands of a trained used will be no more dangerous than a book of matches, in the hands of a trained user.

[Eagledad]

>>Small Scouts & big knives don't mix well.

[evmori]

Barry,

I agree with you! Scouts should be experts with woods tools. I personally don't have a problem with sheath knives and have used them as a prop when teaching knife safety. My council does thing like this. They err on the side of caution. And like I said, there really is no need for a sheath kife at summer camp.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

My issue with sheath knife safety is not in the use but in the carrying. I have seen very few sheath knives stored in a sheath that is substantial enough in quality, material or construction to protect someone in a fall or collision. Let's face it, scouts tend to move with great enthusiasm (read as "run with wreckless abandon") more so than adults do. So while I think fixed blades might be a much better adult tool than youth tool, it seems logical that if we want scouts to carry pocket knives it is important that we set the example.

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Double Eagle]

My take on the sheath knife and it's bad reputation is due to two things. First, scouts with poor quality sheaths often had/have the blade puncture or slice through the plastic or synthetic covering. Good leather can't be substituted. Second, too few experienced scouts and scouters were wearing them properly. Often wearing them towards the front of the belt and stuck them while bending or squating. They should be worn towards the rear on the hip. I still have many and use them while hunting. I don't use them in scouts but love them just the same. My rule is for scouts is that the blade should not be longer than the palm of your hand is wide.

 

[red feather]

Exposure to tools and their proper uses is a key part of camping. Teaching scouts how to use axes, bow saws, knifes, dutch ovens, fires, and all the other miriad (sp?) aspects of outdoor camping is a part of what we do on overnights.

 

If a scout is not introduced properly to these things they are apt to use them improperly. Note the threads on stoves, etc. Sheath knifes are just as safe as folding when used properly and that safety must be taught. Just as range safety and firearm safety must be taught.

 

Teach them all we can and how to use them safely and they will be the better for it.

 

yis

 

ps. my favorite knifes are a folder for small stuff, but my old military sheath knife for everything else. Also gives me the chance to teach the boys how to sharpen the knifes they use.

 

pps 'Rambos' are not allowed