R. E. Lee is not PC

[Eamonn]

Not sure if you can hijack a thread that is over five years old?

 

I was checking my e-mail when "packsaddle, has just replied to a topic that you are subscribed titled 'R. E. Lee is not PC', on the SCOUTER Forums." popped up.

I knew something was going on.

I gave up being notified about topics a long time back.

In fact soon after the system wen wild and one day I received 212 notifications that Dsteele had replied.

 

It was nice to look back at the names of the people who were around at that time.

Of course it's sad that some have moved on and maybe not so sad that others did.

With that I'll leave you Americans to fight over how you all want your history to read.

I really don't know what you all would do if you had as much history as us Brits?

Eamonn

 

 

[TheScout]

I don't know if I like the King of the Parliamentarians

[talen333]

"I really don't know what you all would do if you had as much history as us Brits? "

 

So many of us have our roots over there I think given enough time or incentive we'll fight over that too.

 

[TheScout]

That should be or the Parliamentarians.

[packsaddle]

Heh, heh, Eamonn if you're reading this, they hijacked the OTHER thread, the one about McCain's VP. I just brought this one back to life to see if that other fight could move and take root in its proper habitat.

[Trevorum]

"I really don't know what you all would do if you had as much history as us Brits?"

 

Ahh, but you see, that just means we have more pre-history than you!

[Eamonn]

packsaddle

I'm sure that you might have noticed that I have given all this talk about White Guys and White Women a very wide berth.

I was tempted to mention "The Iron Maiden". Dear old Maggie. A Lady with whom I respect as a leader but as a member of the Labour Party never was able to see eye to eye with.

I read recently that a town in Ireland had elected the first black mayor.

I read this soon after hearing my sister complain that it's not possible to order a cup of tea in English in Shannon Airport because of all the immigrant workers employed there.

She went on and on about this darn cup of tea and the immigrants!!

I reminded her of how our Dad used to tell the stories about the "No Irish Need Apply" that he faced when he arrived in the UK.

 

This past week I spent a few days in Harrisburg, my state capital. I was running short on my favorite cookies, so I drove to Bird In Hand and Intercourse PA. There is a wonderful Tea Shop there which sells these cookies.

I really enjoy visiting the farms and seeing the Amish way of life.

Sad thing is that so many of the Amish Stores are selling junk a lot of it imported from a long way away from Pennsylvania.

As I walked around one store I noticed a big display marked 75% Off. On closer inspection I seen that it was all "Red Neck" stuff. Silly signs and t-shirts with the material that Jeff Foxworthy (Or something like that?) was famous for a little time back.

When I seen all this stuff on sale, I thought to myself why is this stuff on sale?

On the ride home I pondered this.

I came to the conclusion that all the Red Necks had gone away.

Of course that was until I read some of the stuff that has been posted in some of the threads over the past week or so.

My pondering topic for today is: Was it really a civil war? Or was it really an Act of Northern Aggression?

I did ponder this R.E.Lee not being PC question, but was unsure if someone who is dead can be PC or not?

I could of course be totally lacking in political correctness and start a thread about Colonoscopies, but I can't spell it.

Ea.

 

[packsaddle]

Eamonn, I can feel your pain.

Maggie might have been tough as boiler plate, but...she was HOT! A matter of perspective, perhaps. The one that I still shake my head in wonder at is Blair:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-397106/Proof-Blair-Bushs-poodle---president-calls-My-boy.html

 

Wow.

But Jeff Foxworthy is still famous. I always wondered why people around these parts thought so highly of his jabs at THEM. I laughed but looked nervously at my gun-fanatic-Confederate-flag-waving neighbors and wondered why THEY were laughing. Go figure. But I would like to correct one thing. The original connotation for 'redneck' was more descriptive than disparaging. I grew up among country folks who worked hard outside all day and had perpetual sun-burned necks. Most of them were decent, honest, hard-working people. Some of them were and ARE what people in these forums would call 'liberals'. And at least a couple had Ph.D. degrees, for what that's worth. The few ignoramuses who spewed hatred and prejudice (and flew the Confederate flag) gave the rest of the rednecks a bad name. And made that flag a symbol of hate and prejudice. Again, it may be a matter of perspective and if someone didn't LIVE through that time, they might view it differently. Guess which political parties all those guys belong to now.

[gwd-scouter]

Pack is right about the original use of redneck. I grew up in Maryland just outside Washington DC and remember hearing the term redneck used in reference to folks that lived in the very rural western Maryland area. It wasn't until I moved to South Carolina that I learned the term has come to mean something much different and that the "gun-fanatic-Confederate-flag-waving" folks really do exist. Got one right down the street from me. He very proudly displays the confederate flag in his yard. On special occasions he does raise the American flag, but below the confederate.

 

He and folks like him may call themselves republicans, but I doubt they represent the majority of the party. Or, at least, I hope they don't.

[Stosh]

Very interesting thread which I have kept out until now.

 

1) Lee was a good general of a small army. His army was located in the east where all the good publicity could be had. Other southern generals were just as good, lasted longer in the field than Lee and are washed under the table by revisionist historians that are supportive of the Confederate Mythology of today.

 

2) The Civil War was fought to preserve slavery by southerners and to preserve the union by northerners. After 1863 it was added to destroy slavery as secondary to preserving the union. For the first two years of the war, the north didn't care if slavery was preserved or not. Had the war ended before the Emancipation Proclamation, slavery would have been preserved along with the union.

 

3) Negroes were not enlisted, nor fought for the southern cause until at the very end of the war. They were used as slave labor to build forts, bring supplies, etc. but not fight.

 

4) The issue of slavery and the issue of civil rights for Negroes are two entirely different issues resolved in our country 100 years apart. In 1860 slavery was "morally wrong" but it wasn't until 1960 that civil rights of Negroes were in vogue. Until then both north AND south had major Jim Crow laws on the books.

 

5) The Battle Flag of Northern Virginia ("Confederate Flag") never was an official flag of the Confederacy and is NOT the "Stars and Bars". The Confederacy had 3 flags and none of them looked like the Battle Flag of Northern Virginia. If one wishes to know what the Stars and Bars looks like, look at the New Georgian State Flag! They switched from an unofficial "Confederate" flag to a very close reproduction of the OFFICIAL Confederate flag for their new flag. The real joke is that the PC crowd didn't know they had been upstaged big time, still don't as far as I can tell!

 

6) I have a lot of BSA patches with the Battle Flag represented on it.

 

7) For those who don't like history re-written, it happens all the time and continues even to this very day by writers on both sides.

 

8) Maybe it's time to go back to the city patches and dump the stupid council patches anyway. I always like to know where everyone came from rather than just a council patch that looked good and told me nothing.

 

Stosh

[Eamonn]

Not sure what this has to do with anything?

But I'm going to post it just the same!

In 1975 I attended the World Jamboree.

One free afternoon I was out and about not doing anything special.

I stopped by where the South African Scouts were camping.

I was a little surprised to see both black and white Scouts camping together.

They did a wonderful Wellie Dance.

"Wellies" are rubber boots that come up to just under the knee. They are named for the Duke of Wellington. The correct name is Wellington Boots.

These South African Scouts had string with beer bottle caps tied around their boots and as they danced they slapped their wellies, one Scout was giving some sort of chant that kept everyone in time.

It was really was something to see.

My next stop was at a small campfire circle.

Two BSA Troops were entertaining people like me, who had little else to do.

One Troop was from the South and the other was from the North.

First the Troop from the South sang Dixie, then the Troop from the North sang the Battle Song Of The Republic, they then both joined together to sing the American National Anthem.

When I got back home to the UK I made a point of buying the recording by Elvis.

A young man I think the world of went to the World Jamboree in Thailand.

The International Patrol he was in did a service project at a school. After they were done working the local school teacher asked the Scouts to perform their national dance. This poor kid had no idea what the American National Dance was /is.?

He is a very quick thinker and when it came to his turn he did "I'm a little teapot" He got the local kids to join in.

He did say that he had thought of doing something with "I'm a lumberjack.." but thought that was too English.

I'm sure if we look at all 3 of these that someone will find fault and come up with something that isn't PC acceptable.

Ea.

[Apache Bob]

So - 5 years later. What was the membership numbers in 2003 and what are they in 2008 in that council in the middle of Virginia?

 

[Tokala]

A similar concept with the change from "Fort A.P. Hill" to "Caroline County".

[Apache Bob]

I did find some information on the membership of the Heart of Virginia Council on their website.

In 1998 they had 19,694 youth with 595 units.

Their goal in 2007 was to have 19,806 youth with 610 units.

So their PC change brought them in 112 youth and 15 units? Wow!

Also on their website in the history section the never mention that the Council use to be called the Robert E. Lee Council.

Isn't it great what some people go through to rewrite history.

[scoutldr]

Would be interesting to know the actual numbers. Council goals frequently do not reflect reality. My guess is, statistically, there was no change, or even a slight decline, as a lot of councils have experienced.

 

I do know some Scouters in that council, and many still wear the REL CSP. Just as some scouters in our council refused to give up their red and white community strips when they were annexed into our council many many years ago.