Removal of family from troop

[eagle90]

With your training and experience and your knowledge of how the program should be run, you would be welcomed with open arms in most troops, including ours! Look around and find another home. It is probably for the best. Good luck!

[evmori]

Don't give in on this one. What these people are trying to do is wrong. No one can remove an adult leader from a Troop or Pack without the approval of the COR. They own the charter and are responsible for it.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10(This message has been edited by evmori)

[packsaddle]

Jark, This is a very troubling story to me because it seems that boys are being affected for no good reason other than some adult disagreement. If that is so, it is wrong. Unless you choose the path of least resistance because, as parents, you decide it is best for your children, I think you should consult the professional scouters and fight this case...especially if regulations are being violated as a result. I say that hesitantly because I have received scant help from our professionals in the past but it seems your only other option. Maybe the ones in your area are up to it.

When our new SM took over, I told him that dealing with the boys would be a piece of cake in comparison to the adults. This is a perfect example. He appointed me (don't any of you laugh) to keep the peace among the adults and so far, so good. My heart goes out to your boys, good luck. Keep us posted as to progress.

[littlebillie]

Jark,

 

please, no offense intended here, but we all know there are 2 sides to every story. would you be able to put yourself on the other side of the fence and describe how your positions, comments and statements may have been taken?

 

I doubt we'd get the CC, ASM et al to participate in this thread, so can you provide an even-handed, true-color picture of their perspectives?

 

also, I'm curious - were the boys encouraged by adults in the dress code thing, or unchallenged or uncorrected or just ignored or... well, what?

 

finally, I'd be interested in learning what suggestions your boys made that were ignored, and by whom - boy or adult - they were disregarded...?

 

this would really help flesh out the picture.

 

when you point out the basic regs, how do you do this? self-righteously, self-deprecatingly, cheerfully, indignantly?

 

is it possible that some adult feels threatened or challenged by the boys in some way, and the action against you is a cover-up for something else?

 

thanks for any insight!

 

[jark]

I'll try to address some of the previous posts questions as best I can.

 

The dress code thing seemed (from our perspective) to come from out of the blue. Apparently, it had been discussed at the PLC and then just provided to the parents as way of information as to how they were changing it. It wasn't shown to us to approve or disapprove (as pointed out by the ASM), just as here it is and it's what the boys want. We (as parents) didn't know it was up to the boys to set their dress code. We seemed to think that we already had a policy in the troop (which we did) and that it agreed with BSA standards. (Up to this point the code was to wear uniform shirts to and from events and that class B shirts would be plain or nature related. Pretty simple and easy to follow.) What they came up with opened up the gates for much more latitude in what the boys could wear. We took some samples of what the new code seemed to allow and while the parents said "Oh, No, that's not what they meant!", that is what the new policy would allow. It went downhill from there. We tried to explain our point of view in a rational manner and perhaps we can get too involved in these things, but it seemed to warrant a discussion and pointing out what could happen.

We don't know why the boys decided to come up with a new dress code. It came up at a PLC and neither of us go to that. Our one son did, but he didn't recall much about it.

 

In the meantime since I started this thread, our one son has mailed our COR asking why HE and his brother were removed from the troop. They had not(and still haven't) been given any reasons about their behavior or attitudes that would cause this kind of action. We haven't heard back from her yet. (We copied the CC on this to see if he has anything to share.)

 

Also, just to indicate that we are not imagining things here there was a most interesting development this weekend. The ASM's son had a work session for his Eagle project on Saturday. It is being done in the downtown section of our city and we happened to pass by. When we did we saw that one of the boys (the son) was using a jackhammer! We later talked to another boy at the session and he said that they all got to use it! I checked with council and they did NOT file a tour permit and this kind of tool is not to be used by anyone under 18! The CC was at this event also. The SM (who told my son not to use any power tools at his project) was not there. So now this same pair of leaders is putting the boys in danger by allowing them to use improper equipment and if something had happened they wouldn't have had the insurance protection!

 

My one son (the one in town) will be attending his weekly scout meeting tonight at another local troop (he has some friends there and we know a lot of the adults there also). I talked to the SM of the this troop and he was fine with the transfer and was also aware of some of the issues with these two leaders from earlier associations. So, we will go on from here.

 

My main goal was to try to get an understanding of proper protocol in dealing with troop members who don't get along and you all were able to help us direct our information to what we hope will be the right people.

 

Thanks again!

[packsaddle]

Jark, That jackhammer part really caught my attention. If the troop leadership is really that lax in their approach to safety, the council needs to know it because the boys in that troop could find themselves in a dangerous situation at any unexpected time. If you have already burned your bridges, the remaining boys in the troop (or at least their safety) might also benefit from a stiff note to the chartering organization. And save a copy for later, in case the family of an injured scout needs you to help their attorney with the punitive damages part.

[nldscout]

Well, since jackhammersa re not banned in the tool list, what did they do wrong?

[packsaddle]

H'mmm, that was a joke wasn't it? I hope so. In case someone takes that seriously, here's a rhetorical question. Are backhoes, arc welders, or overhead cranes on the list? But they do mention go carts. I wonder why they didn't also mention stud guns or blow torches. And...I notice they didn't specifically mention common sense, either.

Failure of BSA to specifically prohibit something does not relieve everyone of the risk or the potential liability. There's that common sense thing again.

[SR540Beaver]

pack,

 

You just expect way too much!!!!

 

Just kidding!

[packsaddle]

KWC57, Point taken (smirk, smirk). My wife (remember, the one with the flying monkeys?) gleefully likes to remind me that, "...after all, you're dealing with a bunch of MEN!"

Oh death, where is thy sting?

[littlebillie]

so - things are slowly sinking in but I'd just like to be sure - there's no jackhammer belt loop or chainsaw juggling merit badge?

 

I'd just like to confirm, is all...

[dan]

common sense is not common

If it where, would not have all of these myths about the BSA.

 

[packsaddle]

littlebillie, nice to hear from you. We've diverged so much that by now Jark is probably going, 'Huh?' but I have to say to you...sh-h-h-h-h, don't give them ideas.

Actually, I've always been amazed at (dare I say it?) the Golf merit badge. You know how many golfers are struck by lightning? It's almost...biblical.

[littlebillie]

hi, pack - good to see you around.

 

yeah, there are some inconsistencies, aren't there? my son just graduated Cubs, and our new Troop approached me wondering if I might be qualified to counsel certain merit badges - they query every new parent, of course. I ended up reading the Geology requirements, and based on some of the posts I've seen here, the option on fossils could raise a few hackles, as might the whole "8. Make a chart showing the geological

eras and periods and show in what geologic time the rocks in your region were formed" for the 60-century crowd.

 

Oh, well - all things, all people, I guess.

 

hmmm - ok, everybody, has THIS post gone off track enough?

 

Sorry y'all!

 

 

 

 

 

[twin_wasp]

Back to the subject.

 

One wiser and younger scouter told me that the scouter's bottom line that the boys run the troop - and often they will make mistakes, but you have an obligation to intervene if health or safety is in jeopardy, or if the troop is deviating from the program, (such as no skydiving)

 

The dress code thing seems to be in the allowable mistakes category, - no one gets hurt by it, you may or may not be deviating from scout rules and the boys should be encouraged to find out what BSA rules are and what the consequences are of non-compliance. For example, without uniforms, cap staff will probably not allow you to do the retreat ceremony.

 

So my advice, as a parent, talk to the scoutmaster, but do not make his life miserable over the dress code thing.

 

The jackhammer seems to be a straight forward case of safety. You have to intervene as a scouter, as a parent you have to intervene if your own kid is involved.

 

I would find another troop, AND ask to meet with the committee to clear the air. Explain your position, let them explain theirs. Maybe both sides are misinterpreting the situation. Then go to the other troop. But at least let "friendly cureous and kind" rule your departure.