Removal of family from troop

[jark]

I'm posting this to get a general reaction, particularily from Committee Chairs, Commissioners or other leaders.

Last night our Scoutmaster came to our home and informed us that he was ordered to tell us to transfer out of his troop.

The background is basically that my wife and I don't get along really well with the Committee Chair and one of the ASMs in this unit. We have had numerous disagreements on how the troop should function over the years. Recently we have offered to just step back and make sure that our boys are available for meetings, events and campouts.

This apparently was not good enough and we have been told to leave.

My basic question is, what would the normal chain of events be in a case like this where there is disagreement among the adults?

Is this proper to tell the whole family, especially the boys to leave?

Who should have given us this information? I don't think it should have been the SM, but the CC.

Shouldn't a discussion among the affected parties have been held first?

Wouldn't the Unit Commissioner have been involved?

Thanks for any reactions to this incident.

[RMV]

Hey there, I don't fit any of the positions that you asked for, but hopefully can help out.

 

The real question here is, is the committee in agreement? Then it doesn't matter who delivered the messaage. It is not an everyday thing to remove a family. That said, it is within a committees power to do such a thing.

 

I think most troop committees try hard to not penalize youth when adults can't get along, so this decision must have a lot more to it. If you think that the SM did this on his own, call the committee chairman and ask. If the SM did this on his own, then you may find that this resolves rather quickly. If he/she had committee backing, then the decision is pretty final. The only other recourse would be to go through the chartered partner, but that would typically not solve your problem, but create even more.

 

People often ask why we need more than one troop in a town. I find the reason to be that each troop has it's own personality. I hope that you and your son look for another troop that might be a better fit.

 

 

Good Luck!

 

RMV

 

[SR540Beaver]

jark,

 

I know you probably don't want to get into specifics, but it is hard to respond without knowing the issues. You say that you and your wife had problems with the CC and an ASM. What were the differences over? Did someone think the troop should be boy led and someone else didn't? Was one side or the other antagonistic and carry an "in your face" attitude? As my Mom always said, "you catch more flies with honey than vinegar". I could see the leadership wanting to remove someone who was constantly critical and complaining and generally backseat driving. Now, I'm not accusing you of any of those things. Neither I nor the readers know you or the CC or ASM and the situation that has developed over the years. It is hard to say what should happen or how it should happen without knowing the situation. You might look around in the threads. If I remember correctly, there was a thread in the last couple of weeks on the reverse of your situation where someone was asking advice on removing people from the troop. It could be the other faction you are dealing with.

[jark]

To clarify a few points:

The SM was ordered to talk to us. He did not have an issue with us or our boys. In fact we just had our Eagle COH for our older boy in this troop! The SM was sorry about having to do this and offered to continue to help our other boy in the troop with merit badges, Eagle project, etc.

My main point in posting this is to hopefully get some clarification of how this kind of thing should be done in a troop.

We are not aware of a troop committee meeting being held where this decision was made by the parents.

Our basic issues with the CM and the ASM are they say it is to be boy run, but when one of our boys makes a suggestion, it is ignored.

They recently let the boys come up with a dress code policy that is so lax, the boys could have worn rock group T-shirts to campouts.

We would try to bring up that there are national and local policies for these things, but are again rebuffed.

Again, I want to understand from others that have been in similar situations or heard of such as to the proper process that should have been followed for this kind of situation.

Again, thanks for any information.

[SR540Beaver]

Jark,

 

Look here for a discussion on the removal of volunteers:

 

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=26729

[evmori]

Who is making this request? If the adults are registered leaders, the COR must agree and council must be notified.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[acco40]

Issues with the CM? If the troop has a Cubmaster, you are in the wrong troop!

 

I believe the question you ask is not who is right, who is wrong, how the situation should have been handled, etc., but how should the removal of a family and how should it be communicated. To me the who is not that important, the how is. If you and the CC were not on good terms, I can see how it would not be a good idea for the CC to communicate your "expulsion" to you. Concerning the how, it should be a committee agreement with the CO (via the COR) at least aware of the decision.

 

 

[Eagledad]

Hi All

Some good advice is being given. I am surprised though, I have never heard of a scout being asked to leave along with the parents. I agree, I think only the COR can ask you leave, and it make sense that council has to be notified. But to ask the scout to leave? Is there more to this story?

 

Barry

[jark]

(That was a slip of the fingers earlier, meant CC, not CM)

I have not been able to determine anything regarding asking my boys to leave the troop. There has not been any discussions regarding behavior, discipline or attitude that have been brought to our attention.

As far as I know, there was no general committee meeting held to decide this (I could be wrong since I know we wouldn't be invited if such a thing had happened) and I don't believe that anyone outside the troop was involved (COR or IH). I will call the COR tonight and see if she has heard anything.

I also don't know when the decision was made, just that the SM caught us last night before a normal troop meeting.

I have e-mailed our district executive to see what proper procedure would be in a case like this, but haven't heard anything back yet.

The information I've seen from all of you indicates that the COR should know at least.

I'll let you know what else I find out.

Thanks for all the information.

[SR540Beaver]

Jark,

 

Just a question for clarification. You called this thread, "Removal of family fron troop". Then you said that to your knowledge the boys are not being asked to leave (if I understood correctly). Are you and your wife registered leaders in the troop? Right or wrong, I can see where SOME of the leadership may have a problem with parents TELLING them how to do things if the parents are not trained or registered. Again, I am not accusing you of any wrongdoing, just trying to better understand the specifics of the situation. You are entitled to your opinions and should have the freedom to express them, registered or not.

[shemgren]

Only the COR has the authority to removal a member, youth or adult, from a unit. The council must be notified that this happened and the basic cause of the action (for youth protection purposes).

 

The SM cannot make this decision. In our troop's bylaws, the committee may decide to remove a member, but ONLY the COR can enforce this decision, per BSA's Rules and Regulations.

 

Scott

ADC, COR

[RMV]

I don't think the council has to be notified unless the removal is for youth protection issues. If the leader is a registered unit leader then the council would need to be notified to remove the leader from the list of leaders registered in that particular unit. The leader would then be able to join another unit, with proper approval of that unit.

 

Most of the time the council is asked to get into the middle of such a dispute, but not always. Being asked and doing so are two different stories.

 

The chain of command is that the COR, then the IH is the final authority witin the unit. The CC has the authority to make the removal, but the COR can then overide if they choose.

 

There are times when a council removes the leader and informs the IH or the COR of the removal. This is usually regarding youth protection issues. Other times because of some sort of hit in a criminal background check. Since April 1, all registered leaders mush submit a social security number for this background check.

 

The main question has been was this done right? Still not sure, but it sounds like it was. The SM was just the messenger. I have never heard of a whole family being removed, but I wouldn't find it outside the power of the CC to do so.

 

RMV

[nldscout]

Tell the CC you want a full committee meeting with COR present, lay out all the cards. Until they did that continue to come to meetings. Make then do it the right way

[jark]

Again, thanks for all the information.

To clarify an earlier question. My wife and I are simply adults in this troop. In the past we had been listed on the charter as members of committee, but probably not this year.

We do not hold formal leadership positions in the troop but are registered, trained leaders in our cub scout pack (I am CC and she is a DL).

As far as we can determine our major problem is that we kept bringing up issues where the troop leadership seemed to be straying for the BSA rules and regulations (like letting the boys make up their own dress code for events).

Since we had disagreements like this, the CC apparently decided he had enough and ordered the SM to tell us to transfer.

There was no meeting of the parents committee where this action was approved.

I talked to the COR and she was aware that there was a problem brewing but did not know that this was going to happen now.

So, we have a family of 5 where the two adults are parents in the troop and 2 boy scouts that were active in the troop (the other boy is a Bear) who have been forced to transfer.

I should have been clearer on these facts earlier, but seeing has how it just happened, I'm still quite frazzled.

My main goal now is to make the leadership of this group completely aware of the proper protocol for doing this kind of thing, since they seem determined to keep making up things as they go, and this whole incident just doesn't seem to have been handled properly.

[SR540Beaver]

Jark,

 

Thank you for the added information. My heart goes out to you. There is nothing wrong with expecting the leadership to follow the methods of scouting and to bring it up when they are not. It appears from other threads I've read over the past year that there are some leaders who just don't get it. The leaders are there to provide guidance, safety and to help make things happen, not to be the "president" and run it. There have been many threads concerning things like odd colored hair and haircuts and earrings. Many of the leaders say, "not in MY troop"! It is not THEIR troop, it is the BOYS troop and as long as official BSA policy is not being broken, the boys can wear their hair or piercings regardless of whether the adults approve or not. If a boy is endangering himself or others or being disruptive, there are procedures in place to deal with it. It sounds like you have some adult leaders with egos who are on a power trip and want to run THEIR troop as they see fit without "meddlesome" parents getting in the way. There have been threads concerning a troop that didn't allow parents on campouts (got in the way) and a troop that forbid mom's from camping. Totally against BSA policy, but it was the way the troop's adult leadership wanted to run THEIR troop. Continue to research the proper procedures and act accordingly in calling these people on their mistakes. Good luck.