Smoking and campouts

[scoutldr]

I don't want to see you leave the program, Eamonn...but I, too, pray that "you get the help you need" to modify your behavior so you can be a better role model and so your kids don't have to watch you die a slow, painful death, as I had to. I realize tobacco is an addictive drug...what I don't understand is why you keep buying them if you want to quit. Does someone handcuff you and drag you to the store? I also don't understand (and I'm really trying), why smokers think the world needs to adapt to their addiction, but they don't want the same consideration shown to alcoholics or cocaine addicts (legal arguments aside). I am incensed, as a supervisor, that I have to allow employees to leave their jobs several times a day for "smoke breaks" of 15-20 minutes every 2 hours, but I don't get the same consideration if I am late for work. I don't understand why camps need to have "smoking rules" other than "this addictive drug is not allowed on Council property, either."

[gsmom]

Scoutdlr

 

You said "I realize tobacco is an addictive drug...what I don't understand is why you keep buying them if you want to quit. Does someone handcuff you and drag you to the store?"

 

I am an ex smoker, so I can answer your question from experience. The nature of an addiction is that you can't "just say no." You go to the store and buy cigarettes because you have an irresistible physiological craving for them. I quit for good (after stopping and starting up again for many years) when my fiance (now my husband) told me we wouldn't get married unless I quit. That was a powerful motivation that finally overcame the craving. Most smokers need a strong motivation AND some kind of assistance to quit. Ditto for alchoholics and drug addicts.

 

gsmom

[acco40]

As my brother has told me, quitting smoking is easy, I've done it numerous times.

 

The best way to quit smoking is not to start. Again, some children (and it seems some adults) have a hard time separating bad behavior (smoking) with bad people. Yes, good people do smoke. The pleasures of the flesh make many weak (smoking, eating, drinking, to say the least).

[OldGreyEagle]

I dont smoke and never have so I will leave tobacco alone. However, I do have a thought about alchohol use. Alchohol, in moderation (the French Paradox), has been shown to have health benefits. Our Scouts know there is alchohol, they probably know quite a few kids who live to get drunk, and may know a few adults who do the same thing, perhaps even their own parents. Why not allow alchohol on scouting events? Why not be the role model that today's youth sorely needs, to show adults using alchohol in a responsible manner, that a glass of wine with dinner or a beer at the campfire isnt the worst thing in the world. That alchohol comsumption CAN be done in moderation and getting stinking drunk dosent have to happen every time a person drinks.

 

That way, when the scouts reach legal age and are able to drink they can think of their adult leaders and think, they could drink and not get drunk and so can I.

 

This of course comes from my experience as a youth, The adults always had beer with them and had a beer around the campfire, those that drank each had one and thats it. No scout dared touch a can as we knew the consequences.

 

Now, I know if BSA were to relax its ban on alchohol what would happen. Lets pretend I get to change the BSA's mind about alchohol and the official policy becomes "alchohol" in moderation. The first time there is an alchohol related injury/death whatever, I would be persona non-grata and the booze ban would we back and for good reason. I respect the BSA position on Alchohol and follow it. Actually I dont drink that much anyway. I just think responsible drinking could be demonstrated by leaders.

[Bob White]

Just a guess OGE, but how many insurance companies would sell us liability insurance if the leaders who were driving scouts as well as supervising; fires, firearms, axes, rapelling, caving, and water activities were told it was OK to drink while responsible for the safety of other peoples children?

 

Drinking alcohol affects desion making. Even a little can slow the process or completely muddle it.

 

One could argue that smoking tobacco is a result of making bad decisions, but alcohol can cause bad decisions.

 

Bob White

[acco40]

Alcohol in moderation ...

 

Bad, bad idea. What constitutes moderation? One beer impairs physical acuity, response times, etc. Not by much, but at what level is enough enough. What ifan adult had three beers and said, I'm fine, I'll have another. It would make it very difficult to regulate. THe easy answer is NO ALCOHOL around the youth. Last week, a bunch of us adult scouters came over to my house and we all drank a few beers as we prepared the final touches on the B&G ceremonies, made AOL arrows, etc. No youth were present. As SM, I have way to many responsibilities on a camp-out to even consider drinking beer or even a glass of wine.

 

I'll admit it was difficult at first, I always associated camping with a few beers but I now fully endorse a complete alcohol ban. I would hate to be put into a position of trying to tell a fellow adult scuter that he / she had "had enough."

 

 

[evmori]

Bob,

You once equated a leader who smokes as a bad example ergo a bad leader. Now you claim smoking doesn't make a bad leader. Make up your mind!

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[KoreaScouter]

First of all, I think OGE's last post was done with tongue planted firmly in cheek. At any rate, I've mostly stayed out of this one, since I don't use tobacco. I do drink a beer now and then, though, so now I'm interested.

 

I think I'm modeling responsible alcohol use for my son every day; he doesn't need to see more of it at campouts. Mainly, though, I'll drink a beer in the evening, while I'm relaxing, all errands/chores done, in my favorite chair, the mutt curled up underneath me, completely "off the clock". I have trouble thinking of when I might be able to do that at a campout, even if it were allowed. I don't see myself as ever off the clock on a campout, and just wouldn't enjoy it.

 

Another issue here, is that nobody ever thinks they're impaired. Many years ago as a young patrolman, I went to Breathalyzer school. Part of that week-long course was lab work, where you were buddied up with another cop, and on alternating days, one buddy drank and the other one tested him repeatedly. This was a clinical thing, so we also took performance and self-perception tests as we went. To a person, even after the point we were legally intoxicated (.10 in Indiana in those days), nobody thought they were too impaired to drive, handle weapons, and so on. Frightening, and we're generally more cautious about this than the population as a whole.

 

KS

[Bob White]

I always said that smoking in front of the youth and violating the policies of the Guide to Safe Scouting made one a bad leader.

 

I never said that just because a person smoked they were bad leaders. I am far more worried by leaders who don't follow the scouting methods than by ones that have gotten hooked on nicotine and smoke away from the boys.

 

Bob White

[Eamonn]

As I said "I hate to admit it !!!"

Of course one ounce of prevention is better then the cure.

Yes, I agree that smoking is a dirty, anti-social habit, that causes nothing but harm. But I'm hooked.

So far my son has shown no signs of wanting to smoke, in fact he gives me almost as hard a time as my wife.

I keep saying that it will happen one of these days.

But 30 years is a long time.

Having said that, smoking where it is allowed, is still legal.

The people who smoke where I work, do so on their own time, only when they have a break.

The company that I work for has programs, for people who abuse Drugs and programs, for people who abuse alcohol. Not so for smokers.

There is a trend, that we don't accept responsibility for what we have done.

Who is to blame ? Is it the tobacco industry ?

Maybe Sister Mary Margaret, could have done more ? Maybe James Bond 007 ?

I know, that I made a bad choice, and own up to it.

But Who Knows, One Of These Days.....