OldGreyEagle Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 "What is left if not for hatred, prejudice, condemnation, and fear?" Sorry Packsaddle, and to think we have been bonding recently but I cant let that go unanswered. You are going to have to show me where the Boy Scouts policy on homosexual leaders gets into hatred, prejudice (well maybe this one condemnation and fear (ok this one as well). I dont remember anyone representing Boy Scouts say we HATE and CONDEMN homosexuals, only that avowed homosexuals are not appropriate role models. That may show prejudice and may contain fear, but not hate or condemnation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 OGE, Uuuuuggghhhhh....you got me! Sorry, I honestly forgot where I was and went into "don't ask, don't tell" mode. And you know I'm not one to sugarcoat things. But you put me back on track. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 Whew! I think that maybe the point I was trying to make may have got lost in here some where! The point I was trying to make was that I think the policy for tobacco use should be worded stronger. Some of you may think it leaves no wiggle room, but just the fact that some posters think the policy is flexible should give you pause. When I confront a diehard smoker (who thinks it is okay to smoke anywhere) I would like the policy to be firmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colomike Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Is the issue here "in front of the boys"? I would say that if it is not an "in you face" issue, ie. someone insist on smoking in front of the boys, I don't see were it is anyones business. If this is a role model issue, then I'm surprised that so many can justify being overwieght yet in the same post condemn the moral fiber of someone that smokes. I've been overwieght and I've smoked (30yrs)and I'll tell you, it took more to quit smoking (2yrs.ago) than it took to loose wieght. So who is the best role model? The one that smokes by themselves out in the wood, yet is involved in the activities with the boys or the one that can't get out of thier camp chair to go run the obstacle course?? and..... acco40, you sure are rash!! As an Eagle Scout and Vigil Honor OA, I would fight you tooth and nail if you tried to strip me of those honors simply because I started smoking in my later years. I suspect by your philosophy that smokers shouldn't be alowed to recieve the Purple Heart or Congressional Metal of Honor either. Cause they are sure people I would look up to!! scoutldr, as an X smoker (two yrs) I don't see why you think that when I was a smoker that I would be any less Loyal, Courteous, Kind, Thrifty, I give you a degree of Clean, Helpful, Brave, or Reverent which btw is between myself and Christ, so if he didn't give up on me while a smoker why should you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlebillie Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 ed raises an interesting question with "speeders". let's not consider those going with the normal flow of traffic, and the occasional emergency. we all know folks who consistently, habitually abuse the speed limit - labeled another way - chronic lawbreakers. what do you say to/do about parents who speed to Scout functions? how about if they're driving kids? breaking the law AND endangering kids! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASM1 Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 BW. I am surprised at you. Your supposed to know the rules. I teach New Leaders Fundamentals and according to the newest video for the class, And I Quote "Adults who smoke should do so in a designated smoking zone outside of the camp area and out of site of the scouting unit" That is BSA policy on smoking legal tobaco. Putting your opinions in bold type does not make it BSA policy. Back to my argument about volunteers making BSA policy in another thread. Just for your future reference. ASM1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 ASM1 I will presume you refer to New Leader Essentials not Fundamentals, and all I have ever said is that they cannot smoke in front of the youth and I have quoted the specific text from the Guide to Safe scouting. You and I agree that the adult must be out of sight of the youth, and that is what I have said the policy is.(This message has been edited by Bob White) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASM1 Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 Your right BW it is Essentials not fundamentals. I stand corrected. Forgive me, it is Sunday and I am relaxing with a few beers and some friends. But I agree with you that there is no toleration for alchohol or controled substances and that will not ever change, thank the Lord! I have too many stories about drunk Scoutmasters on campouts. (from the old days, I doubt it happens much anymore) ASM1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Bob, Using your requirement that all unalterable policy is in bold print does that mean the stuff not in blod print can be altered? Reason I ask is the part about not smoking around the Scouts isn't in bold print in the G2SS. Don't take this as my supporting smoking in front of the Scouts, I'm just asking. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Evmori, If you read the Guide to Safe Scouting you will find "BSA Rules and Policies Bold type throughout the Guide to Safe Scouting denotes BSA rules and policies." So I am not saying the policies are in bold type, the BSA says it. Regular type text is recommendations and explainations. So what the Guide is telling you is that you are not allowed to use tobacco in front of the scouts. But it gives you the option to not smoke at all or in specific smoking areas located away from all participants. Last year at Philmont, due to dangerous wild fire conditions, that location was in your car. I walked out of a seminar to find 8 or 9 adult leaders kneeling on the ground between some parked cars trying to hide themselves from the view of the staff while they grabbed a cigarette. What a pitifull view. Breaking the camp rules as well as state fire regulations, endangering the other participants and that wonderful camp, just because they couldn't walk over and get in their own cars. They were told to either get in their cars to smoke or to go home. I hope they chose the latter. What a wonderful example of leadership they must set at home. It's a shame there is not a class photo of them cowaring on the ground with their cigarettes that could be sent home to display in their meeting rooms. (Trustworthy?, Courteous?, Obedient? Brave?) Tobacco does not belong at scouting events and especially not when children are present or in view of children. Bob White (This message has been edited by Bob White) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Bob, So smoking is different thab drugs, alcohol & controlled substances which are banned? Nice to see you finally noticed. And out of sight of youth is not a policy just a recommendation since it isn't in bold print? Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Now Ed, I'm going to type this really slow for you. Start by reading the entire policy as it appears in the current Guide to Safe Scouting The Boy Scouts of America prohibits the use of alcoholic beverages and controlled substances at encampments or activities on property owned and/or operated by the Boy Scouts of America, or at any activity involving participation of youth members. Adult leaders should support the attitude that young adults are better off without tobacco and may not allow the use of tobacco products at any BSA activity involving youth participants. All Scouting functions, meetings, and activities should be conducted on a smoke-free basis, with smoking areas located away from all participants. So Ed, the policy in bold print says that you cannot smoke in front of the scouts or allow smoking in front of scouts, play with the words as much as you want to promote controversy on this board, but I have to believe that you know what the rule means, and I hope you follow it. It also 'recommends' that if you must smoke you must do so out of sight of the participants. Think Ed, it would be silly to have a policy that says you "MUST" smoke away from the participants, because maybe I don't like to smoke. So it says that if you need to smoke you must do so out of sight of the youth participants. Maybe what would help is if you learned the rule my parents taught us as scouts when they were unit leaders. "the only acceptable time to smoke, is if you are on fire!" BW (This message has been edited by Bob White) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sst3rd Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Just remember to STOP, DROP, AND ROLL!! sst3rd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Bob, Thanks for typing slow. I can't understand as well when you type fast. The policy doesn't say you can't smoke or allow smoking in front of the Scouts. Yes I follow the rules. If an adult is seen by a Scout smoking he is seen by a Scout smoking. I don't promote smoking in my Troop but if it happens it happens. There are many more things that are more important than worrying about if a Scout sees an adult smoking. By the way, I typed slow for you, too. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsmom Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 I have been following this discussion about the no-smoking rules for a while. I just realized that Ryon, the poster who raised this issue, is a 14-year-old boy! This puts this whole discussion in an entirely different light. The adults in this boy's troop are obviously incapable of policing themselves. I find this to be shocking. The onus should not be put on a fourteen-year-old boy to tell the adults to stop smoking! As someone who has had cancer (although not lung cancer, and now in remission), I strongly disagree with Ed Mori when he says "There are many more things that are more important than worrying about if a Scout sees an adult smoking." I can personally attest to the effects of surgery, radiation and chemotherapy, not to mention the emotional stress experienced by my family. If Ryon has not been successful in getting the adults to behave like adults, he should be advised to have his parents step in and enforce the rules. gsmom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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