Smoking and campouts

[littlebillie]

seeing ANY adult leader or come-along participating parent smoking, especially if te adult in question is in any way admired and respected by the kids, CAN ONLY HURT.

 

you have to be pretty lame to look for permission or justification for smoking around the kids when you are in this role.

 

it's unhealthy, it's obviously unscoutlike, and who out there wants to be responsible for a) encouraging any one - espcially a youth - to smoke or b) INADVERTENTLY CAUSING A FIRE?

 

gee whiz, it's a no brainer. you teach against it, you preach against it - and then you're going to light up where kids can see you?

 

yeah, I know it's tough - but character building is what it's all about. but us no butts!

 

 

[scoutldr]

OK, fair question, kwc. Apart from smokers being a questionable role model (the same could be said of those of us with ample girth!) the bottom line is, if you have a scout thats THAT asthmatic, you need to have a serious discussion with the parents to get a mutual understanding of what activities the scout can be involved in, the medications required, likelihood of prompt 911 response to your location, etc. Then let the parents make an informed decision whether that particular activity is one in which their child should participate. It could be that the Troop could forego the campfire if it means that the scout can join in. Thats what reasonable accommodation is all about. ALWAYS have a parental permission slip (specifying what activities are or are not acceptable) for EACH trip with a medical power of attorney to authorize emergency medical treatment. In the case of inhaler medication, the scout should have one on his person at all times (he will usually know when and how to use it) and an adult should have an inhaler and a peak flow meter (with written instructions) as a back-up (they are just kids, after all). And always have a means of communication (cell phone, radios, etc.). Location and access to emergency care will be a big part of the decisionwe have a scout camp that is literally in walking distance to a shopping center.contrast this to the back country at Philmont or the Appalachian Trail.

 

Many people dont realize that a severe asthma attack is a life-threatening situation and sometimes fatal. The mechanism is that the doughnut-shaped muscles which surround the bronchi (airways) spasm and constrict, restricting and sometimes cutting off the air supply. (to get an idea, try running a few laps breathing through a drinking straw) . And asthma cases are increasing among our young people at an alarming ratefor reasons we still dont understand. Asthma triggers can differ with the individual, including smoke, pollen, molds, animal dander, even exercise (most of which you will find in the woods). In an effort to not be different, a kid will probably say as little as possible and try to do things that he probably should not be doing (like sit around the campfire), so that meeting with the parents is vitalget the accommodations ironed out before hand so the scout is not embarrassed in front of his peers. It also wouldnt hurt to have a nurse or Doc come in and do an educational session with at least the leaders and senior scouts, so that they will be able to recognize early signs of respiratory distress and help administer the proper care. Contact your local school nursethey are experts in asthma.

 

SAFE SCOUTING!

 

[packsaddle]

scoutldr, Did you say 'Dooooouuggghnuuuts?' I'm drooling already. An aside, my guys do an experiment for Environmental Science in which they collect airborne particulates from different locations around their homes and neighborhoods. With remarkable consistency, the kitchen comes up as the worst. Worse than the driveway, the baseball field, the front yard. Only the roadside on a major highway exceeds it consistently. I suppose it's not much of an endorsement on cooking skills, but I think the indoor environment is usually worse than the outdoor environment for asthmatics, at least in our area. I could be wrong.

[SR540Beaver]

Pack,

 

That goes along with the theory of catching colds. For ages people thought colds came from being in cold weather. Hence, the name cold. Actually, colds are caught DURING cold weather, but not from being in it. Researchers say it is because we are confined indoors more during cold weather with all of those nasty bugs floating around. Another ringing endorsement for getting outdoors.

[packsaddle]

Right so! I had forgotten about that. If anyone wants to know how we do this experiment, let me know. I have experiments also for the rest of Env. Sci. if anyone is interested. The boys really get a charge out of some of it.

[littlebillie]

when I was a kid, we played in the rain every chance we got. it was wet, it was fun and it was free. nobody every told us "you'll catch cold". and we didn't. when it was too cold or too stinging, we came in. never caught a cold that way, and as far as I know, never have!

 

today, too many years later, I know folks who invariably catch cold after being caught in the rain. when I've asked, they were always told they would...

 

anecdotal? sure. but interesting nonetheless!

[packsaddle]

littlebillie, your story is anecdotal but consistent with more controlled studies. My boys' experiments are not perfect but better than wild opinion. We could get into a great discussion of field vs laboratory experimentation.

[evmori]

scoutldr,

Why do you say smokers are questionalbe role models? Would the same apply to overweight people? How about people who drink? And what about speeders?

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

 

[scoutldr]

Obesity and alcoholism are diseases with complex etiologies. Genetics play a big role. So I would say people who choose to ABUSE food and alcohol (having a glass of wine (Merlot, not Chablis) with your Whopper is ok...once in awhile), but getting sloppy drunk 3 times a week and eating NOTHING but fries and burgers is a bad role model. I am overweight, as were my parents and grandparents, and there's not much I can do about it...Lord knows I've tried. But I can still do the mile swim at Camp...every morning, while the smokers can't make 1 length. I don't drink because 3 of my uncles were alcoholics and died in their 40s of liver disease. Genetics and disease play NO role in CAUSING people to smoke...role modeling does. They CHOOSE to buy cigarettes (at about the age most of our Scouts are) and inhale carcinogens and expose those around them. It's not LOYAL, COURTEOUS, KIND, THRIFTY, CLEAN, HELPFUL, BRAVE or REVERENT. It's your OWN life, you say? Right...until you become disabled at too young an age and your children have their lives disrupted making sure you get to the Dr, get your medications, wait for what seems like an eternity in the hospital waiting room for the Dr to tell you "it's spread too far and there's nothing else we can do", holding your hand while you retch from your chemo and gasp for air and writhe in pain praying for God to take you soon, standing in a freezing rain at your graveside cursing you and God and R.J. Reynolds. Yep, it's your decision...no one else will be affected. Been there, done that...3 times and about to make it 4. Those who continue to defend their selfish behavior are heartless and cruel and I won't have my scouts around them.

[mk9750]

I am overweight.

 

I am not a role model when talking about good health and nutrition.

 

I choose to be overweight (becuase I choose not to lose weight). Although I will stipulate that there may be a genetic propensity for obesity, I will not accept any reason other than it is my fault for deciding to eat things I shouldn't, too much of everything, and not get enough excercise.

 

I also smoked, until 7 1/2 years ago. I chose to smoke. No one made me. I wasn't a role model when i was smoking, either.

 

Should I resign because I am overweight? Maybe I should. I hope not. I want to believe I am a value despite my weight. But if I were told that my weight encouraged kids to eat more, or gave them the impression that it was OK to do so, I think I would resign.

 

By smoking in front of kids, you do send the message that it is acceptable. But rather than quit Scouting, maybe you should quit smoking, and I should lose wait. Maybe THAT'S the best way we can be role models. I am willing to try, and report my progress here. Any one else who is addicted to food or nicotine want to join?

[acco40]

Role models & behavior. We should not make role models the occupation of Saints only. Take for example the behavior of smoking. I don't smoke, my parents and some of my siblings did. My children were taught, by the public school system that smoking is "bad." Young children have a very difficult time differentiating bad behavior from bad people. They were confused when told smoking was bad and that their beloved grandmother smoked. Was she a role model for the grand kids? You bet she was. Children (and some adults) need to know that good people can have bad habits. They also saw their grandmother struggle with COPD and eventually die from complications from it. That was a wonderful lesson for them. They saw first hand that tobacco use can have detrimental effects.

 

The same goes for obesity. Our culture gives out enough "anti-fat" karma already but seeing the former Scoutmaster (+300 lbs) who could not do many of the activities that they could did NOT give them the impression that it was okay to be overweight.

 

The best teaching we can give youngsters is "cause and effect" which works much better than lectures.

 

I'm not in favor of obese, smoking, homosexual, atheists as leaders but we should also not be so quick to judge others. Statistically, the above behaviors have been shown to be detrimental to ones health. Exact cause and effect have not been proven for all of them. And yes, there are healthy obese, smoking, homosexual atheists out there. We should be honoest with our children. They are much more perceptive than what we give them credit for.

[SR540Beaver]

Acco,

 

Good post. I have to agree. Sometimes we get too black and white and pick nits in these threads. As far as I know, there was only one person who was/is perfect. And he stays to busy to be a scouter. Of course we want good role models for our kids, but we do have to take into consideration the human factor and free will. If we were to limit scouters to those who don't drink, don't smoke, aren't overweight, aren't gay, only practice a certain type of religion, never been divroced, etc., we would be severly limited in our scouter resources.

 

Look at politics. Both parties and the media look for and exploit any shred of dirt they can find on an opposing politician. There are many many good people out there that could answer the call and serve their city, state or nation well. Many of them won't because it just isn't worth the scrutiny they will be under. The sad thing is, many of those people actually have nothing to hide, they just see the current scene as too much of a hassle to be worth it. There was a time in my life when I considered entering the local political scene. There isn't enough money in the world to entice me now.

 

No one is perfect, we all have our flaws. Yet we are all a role model to someone at sometime. Even as a kid, there were people I looked up to and emulated in certain aspects of my life. At the same time, there were things about them that I chose not to emulate. I've known guys that knew how to hunker down and complete a hard task. That was admirable and it made me want to do the same thing. But some of these guys cussed like sailors. I knew it was wrong, bad and a flaw. I chose not to emulate that.

 

Kids get input from a variety of sources. The biggest two being their parents and hopefully their church. With that guidance, they learn how to seperate the wheat from the chaff.

 

I want my son under scouters who overall are good moral decent men. If one of them happens to smoke a pipe, I'm OK with it. My son preaches all the time about the dangers of tobacco that he learned at school, TV and scouts.

[packsaddle]

I think the point is...among the list so far articulated (smoking, obesity, sexual identity, alcohol abuse, drug abuse, bad driving - did I leave something out?) the least visible to the boys is sexual identity. The most dangerous to the boys is probably bad driving or some combination of that with alcohol or drug abuse. Then second-hand smoke followed by obesity. Unless a leader is a sexual predator, and this could include anyone, sexual identity poses no risk to youth nor is it visible for purposes of role modelling.

I also would encourage tobacco users to quit the addiction rather than the program. I would fire the alcohol and drug abusers and consider such for dangerous drivers. Overweight persons can join me on the trail and things will take care of themselves.

But BSA chooses to focus on something that offers no risk above other factors, actually much less risk than many. And unless sexuality is made an open issue, the role model factor is absent as well.

The policy is inconsistent with the best interest of the boys. What is left if not for hatred, prejudice, condemnation, and fear?

[evmori]

I feel a role model is more how you are than what you do. Do you steal? Are you a liar? Things like that. More so than being a smoker or overweight. Also, how you treat people is important. I would rather have a fat smoker who is honest & forthright than a skinny non-smoker who always looks for ways to "get around" stuff.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Eagledad]

I believe anyone who is seen is a role model. Even we adults still have role models. What we need to understand is that everyone has good and bad habits or behaviors. The parents of the scouts have to measure the good against the bad and choose the role models they want for their sons. I can't imagine a parent turning away from a rather large SM, half those in our District would be disqualified, but you never know. Many believe the behavior of smoking is more harmful than homosexuality, many believe just opposite.

 

I try and point it out to adult leaders like this. Our council has access to recycled plastic mugs. One adult about 15 years ago started making brands so that the scouts could brand there mug and show all the activities they participated in the council. Many units now have there own brands as well. Anyway, imagine the mug as the scout, and each brand as one adult. Your brand will stay with that scout forever. You have to decide what your brand looks like.

 

Good discussion.

Barry