Lets Talk about this JLTC stuff

[OldGreyEagle]

Never Could resist a challenege:

 

I would like to see the BSA re-do the week long JLTC curriculum to match the new Woodbadge. I am not saying it should be the same, it should use the same principles and use the same vocabulary. The 11 points of Leadership is great, but a graduate of JLTC dosesnt know what a recent Woodbadger is talking about when the Scouter talks about developing a High Performance Team, and the Scouter may not be familiar with the JLTC 11 leadership principles. All BSA training should use the same vocabulary, presented with age appropriate methods/terms.

 

Now, if I remember right, Bob White will reposnd that this is happening, and I hope it will be, I am just looking for confirmation. If not, its a goal worth pursuing.

 

Next, on the topic of JLTC, at the troop level I think the BSA publishes a pretty good 1 day troop JLT training program. I would like to see a second and third version as well. If troop training is held every 6 months, and a new patrol leader attends, and attends as troop guide six months later and then every six months thereafter advances on to ASPL, SPL, etc. a little variation would be nice. What do you all think ?

[Bob White]

Hi OGE,

I happen to know that the pilot program for the new JLT is being tested this summer in at least one location in the mid-west.

 

BW(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[dan]

OK, I give, what does the C stand for?

 

 

[Eagledad]

I had the joy of overhauling our Council JLTC program. Our program was suffing for reasons I can explain later. I am a little surprised by the focus on JLTC. I have a lot of experience in JLT and there are several points I think needed to be addressed. There is too much to address all at once, but I will start with a few points I think are important to JLT.

 

1. JLT (Junior leader Training) is not needed much in a well run boy run program. A troop program was designed that the lessons of leadership be handed down to the scouts as they progress through their ranks and experience with the Patrol Methods. That being siad, JLT is required for weaknesses in the program. The point I am making is JLT should be dynamic to change and meet the needs of the programs, not repeated for the sake of everyone else does it. This is why I think the BSA JLT program fails after it's first run. It doesn't change, it's doesn'answer all the questios units have, and it becomes boring because of it.

 

2.JLT is also a adult realignment program. Most programs start to struggle when the adults don't understand their roles in the boy run program. I beleive the need for JLT is required to teach adults boy run, patrol method and leadership as well as the boys. One reason JLTC is failing in the last few years is because the SMs are sending off their scouts to JLT training without a clue what the scouts learn or bring back. Once the scout is back in the unit, business is pretty much as usuall with the SM not allowing the newly trained lead to lead. While we made some dramtic changes in our JLTC (Junior Leader Training Confence), the biggest comments came from the units leaders who were forced to either attend three hours of training, or their scouts couldn't attend.

 

3.JLT (Junior Leader training) should be a hands on experience, not a show to watch. We learn from our struggles, we only struggle in our experience. Don't you find it interesting that the students are in patrols watching the staff (PLC) act out the very skills the students are going to be performing when they go back to their troops. Our Council change the patrols to PLCs and each scout then became a leader responsible for the program. I can explain later, but my point is that JLT should be as hands on as possible.

 

4. I have trouble with Wood Badge and JLTC. There is this long standing discussion of how to make one resemble the other so that the adults and scouts speak the same language. Wood Badge had to change because the adult leaders were going back and forcing the boys to run their patrols the same way as they experienced at Wood Badge. The failure in that is Patrol Methods is more a phylosphy than a model. But we didn't get that at Wood Badge. What the adults need to know for being a good Scout Leader is completely different from what a boy needs to know to be a good leader. IF adult taining and youth training continue to copy each other, boy run will fail. Scouting will turn into a camping club with adults telling boys how to act and dress. Troops will die at the age 14 and the BSA will try to save it with Venturing which will struggle because if you can't be a good unit leader in the troops, why would you be good in the older boy programs. We have to teach adults how to guide, coach and counsel leadership. If you want to talk the same language, great bring them to JLTC so they can get watch the boys in action. But talking the same language doesn't help much if the boys are not left to get hands on experience. WE have to teach adults on how to motivate the boys to ask the questions. Motivation comes from wanting to reduce the struggle.

 

5. JLT starts the day the scout joins the troop and goes on at least until he leaves scouting. The skills required for leadership start with scout skills, but I have found that 90% adults don't know why or how. They don't know why we should tie knots in this bungee cord society, so they lead the scout in a class, teach a knot and give him a badge without the scout even seeing what happened. Adults need to understand how the Eight Methods gets us from here to there. My concern is National has lost this understanding as well and looks for band aids like JLTC to stop the bleeding. Only to find a new wound developing somewhere else like Eagle mills and inmature older scouts.

 

OK, this is a lot, but I guess we have forever to discuss the JLT. It's one of my favorite subjects and I hope we can help SMs develop better and more fun training programs from the discussion. Sorry for the misspelling.

 

I love this Scouting Stuff

 

Barry

 

 

[Zahnada]

I'm very excited that this message thread was started. Youth leadership is something that I feel separates scouting from any other organization. It's what makes scouting the unique and wonderful experience that it can become.

 

I actually think we should move this thread outside the "Issues and Politics" forum and maybe into "Patrol Method" or "General Discussion." Ideally, JLTC would be important enough to have its own forum. I just fear that some people may avoid this forum because they don't want to hear about all the debates and controversy and I would hate to lose those valuable opinions.

 

I have a question for Bob White and any one else who can answer. What does the pilot JLTC program look like? What were the major changes?

 

I encourage OldGreyEagle and Eagledad to copy and paste their messages into one of these other forums. I hope we get some good debate because I think there are many strong and valid opinions on JLTC.

[KoreaScouter]

This thread hits home; we've had others on the relevance of the current BSA JLT package. It needs to be updated. I'm looking at Troop elections in two months, with the prospect of offering the same Troop-level JLT again...some of our Scouts have had it three times already. The fact that many of you have done your own Troop-level JLT curriculum only proves the point.

 

KS

[EagleWB]

I would also like to see what changes are being looked at. I hope they are not going to take out all the scoutskills, lashings, and cooking that they removed from the Wood Badge. I think the patrol concept and 11 leadership points are needed for the boys and believe that the JLT does more to reinforce these principles. I have done 2 of these trainings and have seen how the youth staff has come together and how most of the participants have gone back to their Troops and made a difference. I believe the new WB does not do anything to help new leaders with these principles, but that is a different thread.

I agree that the Troop JLT could be updated, maybe with more levels, so that it isn't the same every time.