Is Atheistism Gnosic?

[le Voyageur]

Prior to BSA putting the Dale Lambert bruhaha on the back burner decided to revist the philosphy of atheistism. Came across this quote on the subject which took me by suprise due to it's hermetica nature, the quote goes....

 

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one less god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."

 

To understand where this is going, consider that gnosticism regards within it's philosphy that the Supreme Father God, or Supreme God of Truth is remote from human affairs, and is unknowable and undetectable by human senses, that this diety created a series of supernatural but finite beings called Aeons. One of these was Sophia, a virgin, who in turn gave birth to a defective, inferior Creator-God, known as the Demiurge, that is the God of the Hebrew scriptures...

 

Thus, my ponderings have me wonderings if atheistism/agnosticism is the domain of the aeon Sophia who's purpose is make the Supreme God truly unknowable by misleading with the Demiurge..

 

Any philosphers wanting to tackle this one????

 

 

[NJCubScouter]

I thought gnosticism was more like deism. I guess it sort of starts out that way, in that God "is remote from human affairs, and is unknowable and undetectable by human senses." I can go along with all that. But then it gets into being more of a "normal" religion, with gods that have names and give birth to other gods and everything. (See http://www.gnosis.org/gnintro.htm ) Seems like sort of a cross between Christianity, Greek mythology and something some college philosophy major thought up after a long night of "partying."

 

And I surely didn't know that there is a religion that says that the "God of the Hebrew Scriptures" has a father and mother. Imagine that.

[le Voyageur]

NJ

 

Per your last paragraph do an internet search using this key word...

 

"Kolob"

[NJCubScouter]

OK, le V, I looked up "Kolob," it looks like a fictional planet mentioned in the literature of the LDS religion, though another site I looked at did not mention LDS. One site had something about the Osmonds recording an album about it, or something.

 

Can you please explain what the point to all this is?

 

Also, you keep referring to "Atheistism." What is that? If you mean "Atheism," I apologize for bringing it up. Typos and misspellings are epidemic on the Internet, I have been known to commit them myself, and I try not to be one of those who points them out, unless they make the meaning unclear. In this case, your initial reference to atheism (if that is what you mean) as being related to this "gnosticism" is frankly baffling to me. Atheism is the belief that there is no higher power, and some would also include in this definition, the absence of a belief in a higher power. Gnosticism, as described in your post and web site I looked at, involves a belief in God (or "god" or "a god" or "gods" or however you wish to phrase it.) That's not atheism.

 

You also mention philosophy. As I said before, one of the beliefs of gnosticism, which is (to paraphrase) that the "one true God" is unfathomable, unknowable and remote from human events, overlaps with "deism," which is essentially what I personally believe. I regard this as more of a philosophy than a religion, but it is a philosophy that does acknowledge a higher power. Gnosticism then seems to add the belief that the various deities that are worshipped or otherwise identified by mankind (God, G-d, Jesus, Allah, Vishnu, "the goddess," Zoroaster, the Great Spirit and so forth) are "intermediaries" between ourselves and the "one true God." I think we're still in the realm of philosophy. But where I think this gets out of the realm of philosophy is where you start giving names to these different entities and start talking about Sophia, the mother of the "Gods" that we know, which are called Aeons, and that this Sophia lives with the one true God on the planet Kolob. Or whatever. That's religion. I think that's a pretty good dividing line, that I never thought of before. When your philosophical constructs start having names and addresses, you are definitely into the realm of religion.

 

Not that there's anything wrong with that. And if the quiet readers of this thread are confused as to what this is all about and where it is going, nobody is more confused than I.

[SR540Beaver]

le Voy,

 

Been dipping into the wild mushrooms again??? Just joking. Include me with NJ on being totally confused by your post.

[ASM7]

I'm happy to say that I know my who my God is and I am not confused. He is the way, the truth , and the life. If you really get confused when reading the Bible, pick up a copy of Eugene H Peterson's "The Message". It's the Bible written in contemporary language. See www.messagebible.com .

[NJCubScouter]

And I'm happy for you, ASM, but you don't mind if some of the rest of us discuss other belief systems that are more confusing. Right?

[le Voyageur]

First, apologies for the confusion, but also for the typos. The fingers do get confused from time to time on the keyboard.

 

And yes,dispite the typos, the subject is about atheism, being the "disbelief in the existence of deity".

 

And to correct another err, Kolob is not the home of Sophia, but a responce to NJ's statement..."And I surely didn't know that there is a religion that says that the "God of the Hebrew Scriptures" has a father and a mother...."

 

Just pointing out for NJ a religion that does teach this. However, Mormonism is also an excellant example of a gnostic faith that this topic can be worked from.

 

Now gnosis is the belief of an "unknowable" Supreme God, both "created" and "non created" who creates through the actions of the Aeons, as well as the Demiurges.

 

In Mormonism this gnos is seen in their Creation Story told in their Temple Endowment ceremonies. In this story Elohim (the Supreme God) directs Jehovah and Michael (the Demiurges) in the creation of the Heavens and Earth. After their labors Michael is put in a deep sleep by Elohim to reawaken as Adam, and so begins mankind.

 

From this, it can be seen that Mormonism has embraced the "created" elements of a Supreme Being who they consider was at one time corporial, a belief which rejects the "non created".

 

Thus could it not be reasoned that Atheism "is" a gnostic faith that accepts the "non created" elements which rejects the "created"?

 

 

[evmori]

Ditto to asm7,s last post! I couldn't have said it better myself! Thanks asm7.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

 

P.S. Anybody heard from Bob White?

[le Voyageur]

Guys, guys,

 

.....please, please take the time to realize that there are numerious idealogies out there of interest to a few of us. If you have something to contribute on the topic at hand please do so, but if possible, please share your personal views on your religion on another thread. Consider the 5th point of the Scout Law...thanks *

[ScoutParent]

"Thus, my ponderings have me wonderings if atheistism/agnosticism is the domain of the aeon Sophia who's purpose is make the Supreme God truly unknowable by misleading with the Demiurge.. "

 

 

Atheisism and agnosticism is the domain of Satan whose purpose is to lead you to death by leading you away from God and Jesus.

[acco40]

... and if you continue this blasphemous topic I will hold my breath until I turn blue, so there!

 

P.S. And Merry Christmas to all!

[SR540Beaver]

Gnosticism and atheism are not related. Gnosticism accepts the existence of a supreme being, whether known or unknown. Atheism knows that others believe in a supreme being but rejects that notion as untrue. It is not that the supreme being has been hidden from them, it is that they do not believe a supreme being exists even when they have knowledge of others believing in one. They are two different animals entirely.

[NJCubScouter]

LeVoyaguer says:

 

Thus could it not be reasoned that Atheism "is" a gnostic faith that accepts the "non created" elements which rejects the "created"?

 

Well, leVoyageur, although your meaning is still not crystal clear to me, it still seems that you are trying to make atheism "fit" into a belief system that involves a deity. It doesn't fit. Atheists believe in no deity. Why try to make it more complicated than that? As for "elements" that are "created" or "non-created," there is really only one set of "elements" at issue, that is the Universe, including this planet and the life on it. Either you believe that something, somehow created all of this (either directly and/or indirectly), or you don't. If you do, you are not an atheist. (If you don't, however, you may OR may not be an atheist -- you may for example be a Buddhist, a believer in a religion that does not have a creator-god.)

 

ScoutParent says:

 

Atheisism and agnosticism is the domain of Satan whose purpose is to lead you to death by leading you away from God and Jesus.

 

Of course, to an atheist (and to some "theists" as well, including me), there is no Satan. There are just people exercising their free will (which God gave us, directly or indirectly, if you are a "theist") in ways that are sometimes evil.

[littlebillie]

may I assume that scouting freely welcomes gnostics? and polytheists?