Unpleasant Story

[OldGreyEagle]

I must be losing whatever ability I had to communicate.

 

I am not saying my father was a bad guy. He was/is a wonderful father and caring grandfather. As a boy who grew up in rural depression Maine, literally walking 3 miles to school (however only going home was uphill) drafted in the Marines out of High School and made DI, married my mother and made quite a nice living for his wife and 4 children, he did better than alright.

 

I just disagree that spanking, or whiping my behind with a leather belt, was the most effective method of discipline.

 

Thats all I am saying. We can move on, I have.

[SagerScout]

I read Dare to Discipline when my oldest son was about 2 and wouldn't stay in bed. I had never spanked, other than a slap on a hand that was reaching for something that would hurt more than the slap did (hot stove, keys into outlet...). My problem with spanking is that it is a dead-end discipline method.

 

My problem with spanking is that it is a dead end. After reading Dobson's book, we spanked son1 when he "defied" us and got out of bed repeatedly when he was about 2. Worked magnificently - for one night. After that, he decided that the act was worth the price. Got up anyway, got spanked, cried, got up again, got spanked, cried, got up again.... Then what do you do? Cigarette burns on the soles of the feet?

 

Ended up putting a pallet on the floor by our bed and let him know that he could sleep there if he really wanted to. Then he'd go to sleep in his own room pretty easily,but would often end up on the pallet. It wasn't as comfy as his bed, and was wayyyy less comfy than OUR bed, but he still chose it for several months.

 

He's 18 now and still can't sleep through the night.

 

Dobson did write another book about the Strong-willed child with somewhat more useful advice.

[SR540Beaver]

Sager,

 

I've only spanked my 9 year old son twice in his life. He has been swatted as often as he needed it though. I've been lucky though, he has been a pretty compliant child and seldom if ever defied us. My problem with what you said is that in the "war" of wills, you as an adult allowed a 2 year old to win. He got his way and didn't have to stay in bed and follow the rules. He was able to change the rules. Once they figure this out (and they can at that early of an age), they gain control of the family. But instead of having the reasoning ability and life experience of a 20 or 30 something person, they have a 2 year old's perspective. They know what they want (instant gratification) and they just found out how to get it. If being defiant and getting what they wanted worked once, they figure it will work again and when met with resistance, they will become more defiant.

 

While we as humans are the intelligent and the highest life form on Earth, we are still basically an animal like any other creature. We need to take a cue from nature and follow our instincts. When a cub is about to do something that is dangerous or against the rules, the momma lion will give him a pop. She will do it as many times as it takes to get the message across. Now, she doesn't bite the cub and leave a gaping wound in his neck or slash him with her claws. He is her child and she loves him and is protecting him for the future. She pops him to let him know who is boss and in doing so teaches him how to live safely and sociably with the rest of the den.

 

We have gotten so full of ourselves and listened to so much psychological babble that we begin to ignore nature and instinct. Limits are a good thing and so is authority. Would we let a Cub Scout climb an adult rock wall, especially without any safety gear? Of course not. But trust me, I know a number of Cub Scouts that would try it if you turned your back after telling them not to. Our job as scouters and as parents is to provide a safe and secure environment. We make rules for a reason and if we let the rules get broken, problems are sure to follow.

[Rooster7]

kwc57,

 

I agree entirely with your last post.

 

SagerScout,

 

What would you have done if the pallet on the floor was ignored and he continued to jump in your bed? What if he continued to cry if you refused to allow him into your bed. You're the one with wisdom. You know there are no monsters in his bedroom. Occasionally, one has to endure some crying if they want their children to grow up. It seems to me that one of your last comments bears this out - He's 18 now and still can't sleep through the night

 

[scoutldr]

One of the posts in this thread referred to "YP Facilitator Training". Can anyone provide more information on this? Is this a formal training program, or just a Council or District thing? I am the new District Training Chair, and asked the question "who can teach YP"...all I got from my DE, district commissioner and district chairman were blank stares....the procedure has been "anyone can teach it who wants to...all they need to do is check out the video and make sure they are putting out the proper policy." Seems to me if we are all supposed to be on the same sheet music, there needs to be a more formal, Nationally-enforced policy.