Taking up the challenge

[ScoutParent]

I'd be very sad if my sister or my daughter decided to be a pagan. I guess I care enough about them to want them to have life forever instead of a measly 50-100 years here. Just a perspective.

[ScouterPaul]

I found this interesting. It came from www.wicca.org.

 

Most Witches don't believe in the Christian concept of God. As one Wiccan teacher put it, "My God does not have a beard nor does it hate women." They believe in an unknowable Ultimate Deity. Witchcraft, being the oldest religion/philosophy on earth, has its own pantheon of Gods and Goddesses that are used in a way similar to the way Catholics use Saints. Please also refer to information from our Pantheist friend for more on this subject

 

 

[NJCubScouter]

ScouterPaul, I clicked on www.wicca.org, but got an error message, "Forbidden"/"You are not authorized to view this page."

 

Do I have to know a spell?

[ASM7]

Sctmom

 

My kids always loved going to Church and I never had to drag them. I don't think going to Church has anything to do with being a productive member of society or being able to provide for your family. I couldn't think of anything worse for my son than for him to be a lost soul. I guess that it all depends on your priorities.

[sctmom]

I WILL have my sister forever. I do not believe she is a "lost soul". She has very strong beliefs, they just aren't Christian. She does believe in a higher power that is female as much as male. She does pray. She does believe in an afterlife. Her first husband died of cancer. We all know his spirit and soul are still alive.

 

My sister remembers being forced to go to church as a child. My mother stopped doing that about the time I was 5 and my sister was 10. My father was forced to go to church as a child, back when you sat quietly on hard wooden benches for over an hour. My father considers himself Christian and I never saw him in church until I was almost grown. He remembers being so miserable that when he left home he swore to never attend church again. Attending church does not make you a Christian.

 

How many children can really comprehend being a Christian? Is your view of God today the same as when you were 11? Mine isn't. At that age I attended church on my own. I wanted to learn about God. I attended for a few years alone. My parents supported my decision but did not force me. They made sure I got to and from any church event but they never attended themselves. Then I got sick of the disrepect shown by the others who were there because they were forced to be.

 

My sister respects others beliefs and never talks about her own beliefs around Christians. She will go out of her way to avoid the conversation because she doesn't want to upset others. Our Baptist relatives ALWAYS go on and on and on about church, but they don't show their Christian love. They assume not just that everyone else is Christian but that everyone else is THEIR form of Baptist. I am not Baptist and do not agree with much of what they teach. My sister would never dream of telling our cousin's children that what they are taught at home and church is wrong. She would not tell my child that. If I asked her to talk about what she believes to my child, she would do so. After she became a pagan, her teenage daughter was attending church. My sister fully supported her on this.

 

If you think the worse thing is for your child to choose a different religion than yours, then you haven't seen parents who have children try to commit suicide, kill others, die from cancer, suffer from mental disease, etc. You may think being pagan is suicide. Go right ahead. I'll introduce you to my sister when we all get to the "other side".

 

[sctmom]

NJ, are you using a computer that might have a filter on it to keep you out of wicca.org?

Maybe your daughter or my sister can get you some eye of newt....hehehe

[sctmom]

Just wanted to add that my sister tried Christian churches for many years. She had a lot of emotional problems as a teenager and in her 20's. She kept trying to go to church and do what she was told to find peace. She never found it. I tell her part of the problem was the churches she went to. Regardless she has found internal peace of the past few years, even after much grief from her children as teenagers (they are over that now) and watching her husband die from cancer while the kids were teens.

I'm happy for her. She is a different person, a much more loving, calmer person that she ever was before.

 

[Weekender]

Sctmom,

 

I have to assume that if you claim to be a Christian then you beleive in the bible...after all, how else would you know what a christian is? The Bible says that beleif in Jesus is the ONLY way into heaven. I'm sure you love your sister, but the bible says she isn't going to make it. If you truly beleive in Christ and you truly love your family, shouldn't you warn them? If I see a man building his house on a railroad track and I know the track is active shouldn't I warn him that he is making a mistake? If he's my brother and I say I love him and I don't tell him...I'd have to say I either don't care about him as much as I say I do or I really don't beleive a train is coming, or I'm afraid I'll offend him if I bring it up. By what you have said I either have to assume that you don't care about what happens to your sister, your afraid of offending her, or you don't beleive the bible is telling the truth about what's going to happen to her. I think the latter is probably more accurate. The Bible says she's headed for Hell...sounds like you're one of the few people who can warn her...if you truly beleive the Lord will keep His word.

[littlebillie]

Boy Scouts of America, not BIBLE Scouts of America. Hindu Scouts can have a polytheistic religon, and no one else?

 

Not really sure where I stand on diversity, since it's become SUCH a buzz word - but I strongly believe in tolerance, and this thread seems to displays some lack of it...

[scomman]

To jump off the pagan bandwagon and back on to the original topic. In the Salvation Army there was a scout like organization called The General's Life Saving Scouts which was founded in The Salvation Army with the blessing of Lord Baden-Powell. In fact B-P tried to recruit the Founder of The Salvation Army William Booth as a Vice President in the Scouting movement. In the 30's the Life Saving Scouts became a member of the Scouting organization in their country. This is said to prove that even the Boy Scout's dont have the trademark on the word scouts

[ScouterPaul]

NJ

Sorry about the 3 day delay. I just attempted to click the link and received the same message as you. I typed the address in my address bar and was able to get to the website.

[ASM7]

sctmom

I'd like to be able to meet your sister on the other side of this life, but I'm afraid from what you have told everyone about her, that won't happen. I'm sure she is a nice person and I will pray for her and your family. I agree with you about many people in the Church. My key to understanding them is that there has only been one perfect person on this earth, and he died so all of us could have a chance at eternal life. These people slip and fall like everyone else, some more than others, but the forgiveness and grace is always there. It is not possible for me to be sinless, but to be forgiven for those sins can only come through Jesus and the only way to eternal life is through him. Is my world perfect? No.

The BSA is NOT a Christian organization and does not teach one religion over another. As a Christian Scouter, I accept others views and beliefs, but I don't have to agree with them. Just like they don't have to agree with me. To my Church, Scouting is a Ministry and promotes it that way. All scouts are welcome, but we don't particularly cater to individual religious beliefs. The ministries of our local church are offered so that people encounter God's redeeming love for the whole world and respond by participating in God's action in the world. We also don't shove it down their throats. Scouts are free to belong to another troop and also to use their own church for religious emblems studies. Our greatest skill teaching comes from our example. You can't tell kids one thing and do something else. And that's not just while your at the meeting or on the camping trip.

None of what I have said is in anyway is a personal attempt to judge you or your family. It's not my place. I feel compelled to state my religious beliefs, not to preach or to proselytize. Thanks for sharing with me. My prayer is that God will bless you and your family, not only this Thanksgiving holiday, but everyday.

 

YIS

Doug

 

 

[sctmom]

I do not believe the only way to heaven is to accept Jesus as savior. If you think that means I'm not a Christian, then so be it. I think believing in Jesus and trying to live by his teachings is ONE way to eternal life.

 

My sister knows as much about the Bible as I do. I do not have to warn her.

 

We had an uncle who died a few years ago. He was a Methodist minister for many years. Well respected in his community and churches. He never tried to "save" any of us. I'm sure he prayed for us. He would travel all day to pray with my sister's dying husband. He never pushed my sister to become saved at that time. He knew some about my sister's beliefs before he died.

 

The other very religious person in our family was our Granny, who passe away last year. She knew a lot about what my sister believed and didn't believed. They talked a lot. Granny was a Baptist through and through. Never "warned" my sister. I believe Granny read her Bible every day. She loved hymns, to go to church, and hear about God's word. The most evanglizing she ever did was to say "Try to come to church with us one day." That was it.

 

Those two people said more about being a Christian without a single word of "warning". I hope to lead my life like them.

 

Do I agree with everything my sister says? No. Often when she talks about Christians she is just as intolerant as she claims Christians are. She is also lumping ALL Christians into one narrow group. I think just from the few people that post on this board we see that Christians have many different personalities, attitudes, and actions.

 

Do I think I have all the answers about religion? Heck, no. Not at all. I'm always trying to learn and improve, as I hope most people are.

 

This has been an interesting conversation. Thank you all. Now, on to something else.

 

By the way, about the SpiralScouts badges, did you see those that are shaped like triangles? They look a lot like Brownie Girl Scouts "Try It" badges. Strange.

 

Ironically, that hooded robe thing made me think of a monk or a friar.

 

[Rooster7]

Sctmom,

 

Youre confusing being a good person with being saved. There are plenty of folks who are not Christians, but are by all appearances, good people. However, being good is not the way to salvation. Jesus Christ, using the law from the Old Testament clearly demonstrated that none of us is good enough. In fact, he compared the best works we could possibly offer to filthy rags. If you claim Christ as Lord and Savior, but feel there are other paths to the Father, then you are not reading and/or following His Word. Jesus did not mince words. While He wants all to be saved, He unmistakably stated that there was no other way to the Father but through Him.

 

No matter how successful we are at imitating Christ, we are just that imitators. God the Father knows our hearts. So, while we may have a great act to present to the world, God sees and knows whats going on behind the curtain. Once we acknowledge our own sinfulness, then it becomes self-evident that we need much more than a role model we need a Savior.

 

This is not about tolerance, but about a faith we both claim as our own. As a brother in Christ, I feel obligated to share the Gospel, as I know it to be (as it is clearly presented in the Bible). If you believe that I am wrong, then I challenge you to read Gods Word for yourself and confirm or deny your suspicions. Dont dismiss my words and those of others merely because youre afraid of their ramifications. I implore you to open your eyes and examine His Word

 

 

[twin_wasp]

Great discussion.

 

The issue of salvation without Jesus Christ, or as sometimes phrased by us Catholics. "without the church" has been argued and discussed for centuries. My church teaches that who is or is not saved is up to God, not to us. The fact that baptism and faith promise redemption to the Christian, does not mean that the atheist, Muslim or Hindu is damned.

 

I am aware that many evengelical or fundamentalist Christians do not accept this premise.

 

My own personal take on it is that I cannot imagine a God, who is all good, who would reject one of good friends who is an atheist who leads a very moral life, or my colleague, a devout Muslim who aids poor afghan refugees.

 

None of this negates my need to spread the gospel, the atheist should have the comfort of knowing God's love in this life, rather than discovering it by surprise in the next, and the Muslim should know about forgiveness of sin, (which in my limited understanding of Islam, is an area where Christianity has a much better theology.)

 

I also wish to thank all the folks who keep this forum a thoughtful and respectful discussion. I have learned a lot about people's beliefs here.

 

twin_wasp