Religion-Atheism?

[NJCubScouter]

So, Rooster, just out of curiosity, what do you think the policy should be?

[Trevorum]

That wacky Rooster - always good for a straw man laugh!

 

But speaking of ritual god-eating (in the above case, Lucky Charms)... my daughter sent me this link

http://www.newstatesman.com/society/2008/09/cook-wafer-church-university

 

Turns out a student at Central Florida made off with the communion wafer instead of consuming it on the spot. Hilarity ensued, including hate mail, death threats, accusations of kidnapping, and armed guards. Perhaps the worst part was the bald statement by one professor, "Get some perspective, man. IT'S A CRACKER."

 

Of course ritual cannibalism is a time honored tradition among human beings. We have archeological evidence among Neanderthals, numerous more recent contexts (including the Anasazi), and ethnographic documentation among Aztec and other contact societies. God-eating is sympathetic magic, imbuing the consumer with the attributes of the god - power, knowledge, holiness, etc. These days of course, we consume our gods by proxy. I've never before thought of holy Lucky Charms, but if we can have a holy cracker, why not?

 

(This message has been edited by Trevorum)

[packsaddle]

Wow, Trevorum, that link was just..how do I put it...delicious. I enjoyed the email responses, especially that one guy who thanked god he was an atheist.

As long as you're pondering eating a few Lucky Charm guys, think about the gingerbread men, chocolate Santa Clauses, etc, that some of us have devoured. Wow, I could be accused of genocide!

 

So, I always thought that the 'trans' part of transsubstantiation didn't occur until the cracker (wafer, whatever) had been swallowed. Am I wrong? From the article, it seems that the wafer (cracker, whatever) is considered human flesh BEFORE it's gobbled up by wayward students.

This really worries me because a few years ago, more like 15 I guess, I bought a box of random nicknacks at an auction and in the box was one of the little round metal holders with about a half-dozen wafers stacked inside. I still have it. I had no idea what it was but a Catholic friend told me (incidentally, he didn't threaten me with prosecution or anything).

So, just out of curiosity I ate one of the wafers. It was pretty much the same to me as matze...except not as filling - it was pretty small. Could have used some salt. Am I going to hell? Not that it matters to me, hell being just a myth and all. Just curious.

 

[Trevorum]

From the days before my apostasy, I remember that the transformation is consummated by the priest during the service and immediately before the wafers are eaten. The body of Christ is not stockpiled, so I believe what you have is just ... crackers. If I am wrong on this point, perhaps OGE or someone else can clarify?

 

(This message has been edited by Trevorum)

[OldGreyEagle]

The Hosts, unleavened bread, are transubstantiated into the body of Christ at the Consecration part of the Mass. Once consecrated, they are always the body of Christ. If you go into a Catholic Church, off to the side you usually will see what most often looks like a golden safe, it is the Tabernacle where the hosts are stored

 

Next to it will be a red votive light. The red votive light is the symbol that the body of Christ is present in the Tabernacle. They are stored there as the priest may need some hosts to take to a hospital or parishoners home.

[Rooster7]

NJ,

 

Whatever I might conjure up, it would be discerning enough that one could attach some meaning to it. Alas, because it would lack that sacred inclusivity that so many seem to worship today, there would be much consternation and discontentment from the "more progressive" types in the organization.

 

Given the above, I would start with a statement along the lines of:

 

God exists, and He is omnipotent, righteous, holy, and loving.

 

Any faith that deviated from those truths would not constitute a faith in a reverent God.

 

But if I couldnt get common sense to prevail, Id consider dropping the idea of developing a litmus test criterion for one's faith in God, and impose a pledge for "the search". Something along the lines:

 

A Scout pledges that he will continually search for the truths behind his own existence and his purpose for being. Furthermore, he understands and respects others who are attempting to do likewise.

 

At least this encourages a boy to ponder something deeper than day-to-day subsistence, and potentially could inspire him to confront real truths, beyond the physical reality he sees. Its not my preference, but its not offensive or water downed either. It has some meaning.

(This message has been edited by Rooster7)

[packsaddle]

A Scout pledges that he will continually search for the truths behind his own existence and his purpose for being. Furthermore, he understands and respects others who are attempting to do likewise.

Hey, not bad, Rooster! Any chance we can throw something in there about the 'web of all existence'?

 

OGE, did I commit some kind of sin? Gulp, I may have eaten a host.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[Trevorum]

OGE, I didn't know that about the red votive light. That is cool! I like that.

 

Rooster, I also very much like your second statement (although I don't see that it would preclude the search for meaning by sitting in a tree and eating cereal ). This is very close to my understanding of what BSA means by "Reverence". I don't really care what religion my scouts belong to or what deity(s) they believe in. That's all just trappings. What is important (as I see it) is the search for meaning and respect for other ways of searching. I think you've summed that up nicely.

[OldGreyEagle]

I wouldnt sweat it Pack, from where I sit unknowingly consuming a consecrated host is the least of your worries and I say with all the love and respect I have

[Rooster7]

"...although I don't see that it would preclude the search for meaning by sitting in a tree and eating cereal"

 

Yes, but it doesn't celebrate this idea either.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

I also like Rooster7's second proposed statement, which (not incidentally) doesn't exclude atheists (or anyone else as far as I can tell). His first one excludes a significant fraction of the world's population (exactly who depends on who's judging compliance; a Jehovah's Witness would probably consider most Christians to be polytheists and bar them, for example).

[packsaddle]

Dreaded doublepost, sorry.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[packsaddle]

OGE, thanks, that's a relief. Hope I don't put too much pressure on that love and respect quota. Gotta go now, something's smelling like burning sulfur.

[Trevorum]

MAYDAY! MAYDAY!

 

THE RAPTURE IS IMMINENT!

 

Merlyn and Rooster are agreeing on a matter of religion!

 

 

 

(Mebbe that's why pack smells sulphur?)

[skeptic]

Am I reading correctly; Merlyn and Rooster have come close to agreeing on something? Oh my!!!!