this just in...

[OldGreyEagle]

The point is Rooster, I dont see how Children can choose evil anymore than a sheep. And for the record, no, sheep cant choose anything more than what clump of clover they plan to eat next, if that.

 

 

What if the same chemicals and whatever that induced the sheep to be homosexual causes humans to be homosexual? That it is an environmental resonse to some as yet unnamed chemical? What if mixed breeding between ethnic groups causes it?

 

OGE

Matt 7;1-5

[littlebillie]

RoosterVII

 

"Hmmm. How do you suggest we handle rapists? Murders?" Same way we handle child molestersm gay OR straight. Lock 'em away for the good of society. Maybe even execute them.

 

Please know that I restrict my consideration and support of the gay community to those adults who enter into loving consensual relationships with other adults. Take that as a given in considering anything I say about the subject.

 

Good, that's done.

 

"New interpretations popped up when society matured and decided they wanted Gods blessings for behavior they knew was sinful."

 

The 'interpretations' to which I refer indicate that the original Leviticus was referring to lying with male temple prostitutes. And curiously, while bestiality is prohibited to both men AND women, regardless of the role of the males previously mentioned, the act seems to be forbidden to men only. I await further scholarship...

 

"Dr Laura..." was not the target of my comments, but anyone who was not a virgin at their first marriage, or who has commited adultery, whatever. abstinence is easy to call for in others... from these I expect at the least verbiage that acknowledges that the burning of the flesh is difficult to ignore, and that many on both sides of the preferential fence stray. until you see the commonalities, you cannot properly understand the differences.

 

Finally, i must ask - did you choose the name Billy Bob for the ram because of Billy Bob the Thornton, whose marriage was destroyed by infidelity?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rooster7]

OGE,

 

The point is Rooster, I don't see how Children can choose evil anymore than a sheep.

 

I can't speak for the world, but I became aware of my sinful nature at a very early age. God knows our thoughts before we do. God sees everything. So, while we may have reservations, we are in no position to judge. He is holy and righteous. That is how I know Him to be. If I didn't see Him that way, He wouldn't be the God of the Bible.

 

What if the same chemicals and whatever that induced the sheep to be homosexual causes humans to be homosexual?

 

God's Word says every man has free will. I believe that. Regardless of what some folks might be predisposed to (chemicals or not), I believe every person has the capacity to control his own moral behavior.

 

Littlebillie,

 

RoosterVII

 

I suppose that was some kind of "shot". Well, if you're uninterested in hearing my perspective on the matter - Why do you keeping asking questions? I never claimed to be the Pope. I never claimed to be without fault. However, I believe what I believe. I'll provide disclaimers if I'm not confident about something. However, much of what I'm relaying is basic Christianity 101.

 

Please know that I restrict my consideration and support of the gay community to those adults who enter into loving consensual relationships with other adults. Take that as a given in considering anything I say about the subject.

 

Good. Now, go back and look at your original statement.

 

If those in the mainstream cannot control their own actions and urges, well - let him who is without the obvious cast the first condemnation.

 

I picked two extreme cases of sin (rape and murder) to make the point. It's a matter of recognizing sinful behavior. The Bible doesn't teach us to ignore sin when we see it.

 

The 'interpretations' to which I refer indicate that the original Leviticus was referring to lying with male temple prostitutes. And curiously, while bestiality is prohibited to both men AND women, regardless of the role of the males previously mentioned, the act seems to be forbidden to men only. I await further scholarship...

 

You're losing mePlease clarify your question (no sarcasm or malice intended).

 

"Dr Laura..." was not the target of my comments, but anyone who was not a virgin at their first marriage, or who has committed adultery, whatever. abstinence is easy to call for in others... from these I expect at the least verbiage that acknowledges that the burning of the flesh is difficult to ignore, and that many on both sides of the preferential fence stray. until you see the commonalities, you cannot properly understand the differences.

 

My explanation for "Dr. Laura" can be applied generically. The fact is - we are all sinners. If being sinless is a prerequisite for advice giving, or preaching for that matter, there would be no preachers or talk show hosts. The question is - do these folks recognize their own sins? If they don't, then I agree with you - they have no business being in that business (advice show, preacher, etc.). However, if they do recognize their past behavior as being wrong, then I have no problem with them speaking to the issue. I wouldn't want any of these guys to be a pastor (because they've proven that they are susceptible to sexual sin). Nevertheless, falling prey to a sin does not disqualify someone from speaking about it. In fact, it probably makes them more qualified - at least in regard to testifying about the power that particular sin has for destroying lives.

 

Finally, i must ask - did you choose the name Billy Bob for the ram because of Billy Bob the Thornton, whose marriage was destroyed by infidelity?

 

No. I don't particularly care for most of his movies, but my remark was not intended to defame anyone.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

First thing first, Billy Bob Thornton and Angelina Jolie's marriage was'nt necessarily doomed by infidelity as much as the fact they are a pair of the stranger people around. Fooling around didnt help.

 

I am not splitting hairs with you Rooster, just looking for your views. The subject of the movie "A beautiful mind", did he at all times have free will? Is there a such thing as dementia that robs one of the capcity to think rationally? Does Ronald Reagan have free will? I am not being "funny" I would like to get your view.

 

OGE

Matt 7:1-5

[RobK]

littlebillie writes:

 

But even so, consider "However, because of His sacrifice on the cross, all of our sins (past, present, and future) are forgiven" - if He forgives this 'sin', why then, why do others not? Romans says, "Where sin abounded, grace did much more abound" (5:20)

 

I'm surprised Rooster7 didn't include this in his reply:

 

Romans 6:1-2 (NIV)

1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?

2 By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?

 

Sin is not forgiven until repentence, and repentence includes not just being sorry, but a sincere intent to change and cease from sin.

[fboisseau]

I am going to address two items that have been brought forward in this topic.

 

First Dr. Laura.

I listen to her as often as I can and I do not always agree with her (sometimes I think she is too soft on the callers). She has mentioned those items that have been brought up in this forum and her response has always been the same. When she was younger and a feminist in the liberal state of mind she did some things that she now realizes was wrong. She is very clear that she sinned and made mistakes in her past. These are not things she would do today or approve of today and is very clear on that. As she has told parents that have called in with the problem of talking to their kids about the sinful things they have done in the past you are only hypocritical if you are currently doing those things and also preaching against those same things.

 

Second is the question that OldGreyEagle asked about people of diminished capacity and if they have free will.

The answer to that question is yes they have free will, but the choices they may make are tainted by their medical problems. This taint does not let them off the hook.

 

[Rooster7]

I have yet to see the movie, "A Beautiful Mind". If you're suggesting that a physical and/or mental illness can cause a person to do something that one cannot fully comprehend or appreciate, I guess I would have to agree. Torrettes (spelling?) syndrome pops into mind (no pun intended). Thus, I suppose it's possible for a person to have sinful behavior without sinful intent.

 

However, to revisit your original supposition(s):

 

What if the same chemicals and whatever that induced the sheep to be homosexual causes humans to be homosexual? That it is an environmental response to some as yet unnamed chemical? What if mixed breeding between ethnic groups causes it?

 

I find it very difficult to believe that such a chemical (or illness, or breeding, etc.) could cause a person (with free will) to have homosexual urges AND to act upon them, and yet otherwise lead a normal life. That's a very narrowly scoped and profound impact. Also, I dont think its fair to compare animals (such as sheep) to man, because a) we will never know the thought process of a sheep, and b) man does have free will (at least in regard to his intentions).

 

RobK,

 

Amen, brother.

 

Fboisseau,

 

I agree with your post with one exception. Im not convinced that someone is a hypocrite if he preaches against a sin that he has yet to conquer. If he preaches against it and/or similar sins, and approves of his own failings, then yes he would be a hypocrite. Otherwise, every time you stumble (sin), you become a hypocrite. I dont think thats the case.

 

[DeMann]

Rooster, could you explain how men influenced the sheep's behavior?

 

Let me speak out of turn here. I dont know where these sheep originated from, nor do I know how they were raised. I would bet they had been run through some kind of commercial sheep operation. And I do know that I have shot a pile of Synovex into the ears of calves, and they dont always act like normal little guys after that. Sometimes, they get limp wristed after getting a dose of the stuff. FYI, Synovex is a VERY common growth hormone used in smaller calves to make them grow faster and muscle up better. We know that the addition of growth hormones in chickens is causing quite a concern for those who consume them. And, yes, sheep get their own dose of growing stuff, too. I have a feeling that we will not get to know all the details of this scientific study; you know, it is probably being done by some guy who is ultimately trying to prove the evolutionary theory or something.

 

, the act seems to be forbidden to men only. I await further scholarship...

 

the term man is commonly used to refer to mankind in general. See there, I did it. In our language, we have the word mankind to show that women and children are included, and they did not. Hmmm. This is where we must use the context of the text (no pun intended) to determine the true use.

Ps. Please dont use the excuse of not knowing the original language. There are more than enough translations out there. You dont have to hide behind the excuse of some hypothetical mistranslation of the original texts.