Should Darrell Lambert have his Eagle Rank revoked?

[NJCubScouter]

OGE says to me:

 

If B-P's sexual orientation is irrelevent to you, why first imply he was gay, provide flimsy references and then run like the devil away from them and say you realize that what you have doesnt prove a thing.

 

I didn't do any of those things. I said there was evidence, which there is. I think that what I implied was that I don't know whether it's true or not. As for the flimsy references, as I said, I am sure there is more in the book, which I haven't read. There's apparently another book that reached the same conclusion. I haven't read that one, either. I have read other things on the Internet in the past, I just didn't have hours to spend finding all of it again. You can do your own research if you'd like.

 

I beleive having gays in boy scouts is not the worst thing that could happen, but to reach into the past and rely on innuendo and unproven claims does nothing to improve the argument.

 

I didn't do that, either. I never related the speculation about B-P to the issue of whether gay leaders should be permitted. Some others have, but I haven't. I did say it was ironic that the speculation even exists, but that would be true regardless of whether the speculation is correct.

[Rooster7]

NJ,

 

Anyone can speculate. Validation is important. Otherwise, speculation is merely a veiled accusation. And in this case, I think most of us are smart enough to understand that by introducing this speculation, one can propose that perhaps we (BSA and it's membership) have misunderstood Baden-Powell's intent for the program. But I say this is hogwash, and should not even be discussed. If we are permitted to speculate, then what's to prevent someone to speculate that NJ might be gay? If that speculation is accepted as food for thought, then we can propose that perhaps your posts are biased and constructed merely to defend your own selfish interest. However, this would be horribly unfair since there's no way you can prove the speculation to be false. It would give us an unfair advantage to attack your stance on the issue. This, I agree. But, I also submit, it's just as horribly unfair for you or Tim Jeal to speculate that Baden-Powell was a homosexual. He is not even alive to refute this "speculation". Furthermore, it gives you an unfair advantage to attack the viewpoints of those folks who agree with BSA's current policy. In short, fight fair.

(This message has been edited by Rooster7)

[scoutldr]

First of all, for the record, I am straight. Married, with two fine sons, also straight (as far as I know). So what if B-P was gay? Would that change our Movement? Would we all burn our uniforms in disgust and walk away from our investment and the value system? How is this relevant? Keep in mind that B-P was in a different time. My Dad told me that when he was a boy (20s and 30s), swimming at the pond or the pool at the "Y" was always in the nude. No girls allowed, of course (or at least he didn't tell me about that part). Could it be that B-P was just enjoying seeing boys frolic and have fun in, what was then considered to be a natural, socially acceptable activity of youth? And now, when we read his accounts, we are putting our "21st Century" spin on things and automatically thinking anyone who would not turn his head in disgust (and indeed even write about it in a positive light) must be a pedophile? Heck, we have become so hung up on this that kids aren't even required to shower in PE class any more...someone might see someone naked and accuse the teacher of something. Bottom line is, I don't know if B-P was gay or not...no one will ever know. But does it matter?

[RobK]

I have read Tim Jeal's book and I certainly don't find the evidence strong enough to conclude that B-P was a repressed homosexual. It's seems much more likely to me, from the evidence Jeal presented, that B-P was a run-of-the-mill sexually repressed Victorian/Edwardian British Army Officer with a very strong mother.

[NJCubScouter]

Very cute, Rooster. Or should I say, DedicatedDad, since as I recall, he once engaged in similar speculation about me.

[Rooster7]

NJ,

 

As I said, the speculation was and is unfair. But alas, you missed the point. It's just as unfair to speculate about Baden-Powell.

[littlebillie]

"Bottom line is, I don't know if B-P was gay or not...no one will ever know. But does it matter??

 

No it doesn't. Or at least shouldn't - for B-P, or any responsible, mature - gay or straight.

 

Logical conclusion, yes?