dan Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 Do you think Darrell Lambert should have his Eagle Rank revoked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 Yes it shouldbe revoked. It was earned under false pretenses. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 In my opinion, if the members of Mr. Lamberts Board of Review were aware of his decision to reject Duty to God, as the news article suggests, but still gave him his Eagle then I would say no, the BSA should not revoke it. Mr. lambert did not take the Eagle Award, it was given to him improperly by the adults on the board. Each member of that Board of Review should either agree to comply with the membership policies of the BSA or they should have their membership revoked as well. Bob White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compass Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 Mr. Lambert is responsible for himself. He lied and he knew he was lying. Why did he lie? Because the truth would be an obstacle to getting his Eagle reward. True, the adults are responsible for their dereliction of duty, and should experience consequences of their failure. True, bless his heart, he finally told the truth. However, what is also true is he knew very well that his atheism violated Scouting principles. Every time he repeated the Oath and Law, every form he filled out, at every instance he lied. He violated not one but two major values of Scouting. But, because some reprehensible adults wink at him at the end and say it's ok, doesn't mean he's exonerated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScouterPaul Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 On my honor I will do my best.... I can't speak for everyone but I do my best to obey the Scout Law. I'm sure that over the course of time I've broken several of them. For instance at times I've been known to be less than cheerful, my wonderful wife claims that I'm not thrifty and yes on campouts I've come home less than clean. I think that the key words are do my best. I want to be a Scout. I have read the Scout Oath or Promise and the Scout Law and promise to observe them. Also, I will attend troop and patrol meetings regularly. On my honor I will do my best to be a good member. The above is from the Boy Scout Application No. 28-209M. It doesn't say that the youth will believe in God or a God. It doesn't say that he will be religious. It says that he will observe the Scout Oath and Law. The Oath only says that he will do his best to do his duty to God. If a Scout truly thinks through the Belief in God issue and comes to the conclusion that there is no God then in my opinion he has done his best to do his duty to God. I believe that Mr. Lambert has fulfilled all of the requirements to be awarded with his Eagle Rank. To take it away from him because beliefs differ from ours would be spiteful and un-Scoutlike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red feather Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 The award was duly awarded. All requirements were met and aproved by the leaders he was working with. He earned it let him keep it. YIS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slontwovvy Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 Definitely. Even if others helped him get it (by looking the other way during his BOR), that doesn't make it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 red feather, Did he earn it? From what I read his Eagle BOR was done at the Troop level with a district person involved. I was of the understanding the District Advancement Committee was to hold Eagle BOR's & there was to be no one from the candidate's home Troop on the board. If in fact Mr. Lambert did earn his Eagle, it was under false pretenses. He claims he has been an atheist since 9th grade and has mouthed his way through the Oath. Plus, how can he do his "duty to God" if he believes there is no God? Mr. Lambert's Eagle should be revoked. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScouterPaul Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 Ed The following is from the Advancement Committee Policies and Procdures: Eagle Scout Boards of Review The Boy Scouts of America has placed the Eagle Scout board of review in the hands of either the troop, team, crew, or ship committee or the district or council committee responsible for advancement. The council will decide and promulgate which method or methods may be used. At least one district or council advancement reprsentative shall be a member of the Eagle board of review, when conducted at the unit level, and may serve as chairman if so requested by the unit. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 Compass, in your litany of all the times that you say this guy lied, you are assuming a lot of things that you don't actually know. To "lie" means to say something that is not true with knowledge that it is not true. Not what you should have known -- that implies negligence, but to actually "lie" it must be that you did know. You are making assumptions about what he knew at any given time. You may be right, but you may be wrong. And in the end, the BSA does not seem to care whether he lied or not. They are more than happy to let him stay as an Assistant Scoutmaster if only he will say, now, that he believes in a higher power. It is almost like they are encouraging him to lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compass Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 NJCubScouter, The original posted article said: 'In the oath, Scouts promise "to do my duty to God and my country." The law says "a Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others." When Lambert says the oath, he omits the part about a god.' And, in the second article: 'Lambert said he didn't come forth in his early days of scouting because, "Back then I didn't come out because I didn't have the guts to do it.' I came to my conclusions based on my interpretation of Mr. Lambert's words. You also say: 'And in the end, the BSA does not seem to care whether he lied or not. They are more than happy to let him stay as an Assistant Scoutmaster if only he will say, now, that he believes in a higher power. It is almost like they are encouraging him to lie.' My reply to this in the "Looks like it's a done deal" forum: 'NJCubScouter, I appreciated your earlier post. I, too, was disturbed by the approach of the SE. Perhaps that is what it would take to appear 'fair' to non-Boy Scout outsiders.' I still agree with your assumptions about the Scout Executive.(This message has been edited by Compass) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubsRgr8 Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 No. While a Boy Scout, Mr. Lambert fulfilled all the requirements for the award. He received unanimous approval of the members of his Eagle BOR. To revoke his Eagle, for his statements and/or actions as an adult, would be a mistake. BTW, I'm 110% with Bob White regarding the Eagle BOR members, but that's another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlebillie Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 I have in the course years met those who professed to be atheists who were in fact agnostic. What would such a clarification (assuming without any certain knowledge, I grant) do to anyone's perspective on the issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bt01 Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 On Darrell Lamber's Eagle Application; Did he hav to recieve a relegious reference??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 ScouterPaul, Thanks for the info. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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