Bob White Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 Faith-based is a label incorrectly applied by others not the BSA. The BSA uses the term value-based. I think many people just naturally equate values with faith. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjhammer Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 From the original article on page one of this thread...But, said Mark Hunter, a spokesman for Chief Seattle Council, "We recognize as a faith-based organization that to be the best kind of citizen we need to recognize a higher being." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 Merlyn, I stand by both posts. The 28 units you refered to were not chartered to the city of Chicago except for a few with police and fire departments taht were converted to LfL units. The others were with Chicago public schools many of which were converted to parent or neighborhood organizations and continued to meet. As far as Glen Schmidt? If that was a reference from a previous post I missed it. I do not know anyone by that name. Bob White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlyn_LeRoy Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 In reply to OGE, thanks for the supporting sentiment, and no, I don't think the BSA is conspiring to teach hatred against atheists, it's just that the BSA teaches it by example. The BSA is a bad role model. There are plenty of examples in this thread. You yourself admitted that you felt that Glen Schmidt's statement was so outrageous that no comment was necessary, but Rooster has avoided even criticizing Schmidt's statement, and ScoutParent seems to support it by his/her sarcastic response. And didn't you question how Schmidt got to be a high-ranking BSA official with such an opinion? Do you think the response would have been the same if he had said it about Jews or blacks or Catholics? Could it be that having a bigoted opinion against atheists is no impediment to being a high-ranking BSA official? And why is that? Why is it OK to foment hatred of an entire group of people due to their religious opinions, as long as it's the "wrong" religious opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutParent Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 "Faith-based is a label incorrectly applied by others not the BSA. The BSA uses the term value-based. I think many people just naturally equate values with faith." Bob White The resolution on the BSA site addresses this specifically: http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=mc&c=pr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compass Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 tjhammer: But contrary to popular opinion that the BSA is under assault from the left and being drug in that direction, I tend to believe that the Christian majority is dragging our organization in their direction, to a place we have never been... being defined primarily as a "faith-based organization". I thought someone would see this thread in this light, that is why I focused my earlier posts on truth and trustworthyness rather than the merits of one faith or belief over another. See my post on Wednesday, October 30, 2002: 9:20:08 PM. You say: Of course, a Scout's Duty to God has always been a principle, and I personally support the concept that a faith in God is an important aspect of a good person. This implies to me that you are not personally being harmed by this part of the Scout program, and that you are favorably inclined towards it, as long as Christians (or any other group) don't impose their own beliefs on you or anyone else. I am not aware of where this is happening. I really don't see any changes to the program that assist Christians in this objective (imposing their own beliefs on others). If there are not specific changes, but a general concern, please realize that the forced entry of atheists into the program is likely to have a much more profound impact on the principles of the program that you are favorably inclined (faith in God is a good thing) than the possible (?future?) impositions by Christians. As I mentioned in my earlier post (cited above), when others start picking and choosing what parts of the program are valid, what parts are going to be affected? Which other parts are you and I willing to sacrifice as well, in the name of toleration of others' viewpoints? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sctmom Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 A few comments going back a few pages: "God is male". No, God has no gender, God has both feminine and masculine qualities. Christians commonly refer to God as He even though many ancient writings did not specifically refer to God this way. God is God, not male, not female. Merlyn, You mention Campfire USA. If one of the issues is that kids don't have an alternative to Boy Scouts, you just pointed out that they do -- Campfire USA. How does an atheist deal with the Campfire promise to worship God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlyn_LeRoy Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 bob white: >I stand by both posts. The 28 units you refered to were not chartered to the city of Chicago except for a few with police and fire departments taht were converted to LfL units. The others were with Chicago public schools many of which were converted to parent or neighborhood organizations and continued to meet. So, except for the police & fire department charters, and the public school charters, there weren't any. Ah. Yeah, I guess that really showed me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungBlood Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 Wow, looks like scoutparent got you on this one Bob White, "WHEREAS, the national officers agree with the report that "duty to God is not a mere ideal for those choosing to associate with the Boy Scouts of America; it is an obligation," which has defined good character for youth of Scouting age throughout Scouting's 92-year history and that the Boy Scouts of America has made a commitment "to provide faith-based values to its constituency in a respectful manner;" and" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlyn_LeRoy Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 sctmom: >You mention Campfire USA. If one of the issues is that kids don't have an alternative to Boy Scouts, you just pointed out that they do -- Campfire USA. How does an atheist deal with the Campfire promise to worship God? I don't know what promise you're referring to; searching on campfire.org for 'god' doesn't produce anything along these lines, and their web page says: We invite children, youth and adults regardless of race, religion, socioeconomic status, disability, sexual orientation or other aspect of diversity. Camp Fire USA programs are designed to provide coeducational activities for all youth. Youth find a safe and inclusive place to explore the uniqueness of who they are, to master important life skills, to share with peers and adults and to develop assets that experts assert are essential to the process of building character and maturity. We require no oath or participation in rituals that may create barriers to inclusiveness. There doesn't seem to be any such promise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjhammer Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 So, in light of the evidence, I pose the question again: When did Scouting become a "faith-based organization"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 from the Vision Statement of the Boy scouts of America The Boy Scouts of America is the nation's foremost youth program of character development and values-based leadership training. In the future Scouting will continue to Offer young people responsible fun and adventure; Instill in young people lifetime values and develop in them ethical character as expressed in the Scout Oath and Law; Train young people in citizenship, service, and leadership; Serve America's communities and families with its quality, values-based program. Bob White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR540Beaver Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 Merlyn_LeRoy, Why are you avoiding answering my question. Please provide a credible news link quoting Scmidt making this comment. I'm not saying he didn't, I just can't find anything that said he did. Since you keep using it as an example of BSA thought and policy, I want to be sure it is accurately attributed to the correct person. However, I will again state that even if you can prove the comment came from him, it is his personal opinion, not BSA policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sctmom Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 The Campfire Law: Worship God Seek Beauty Give Service Pursue Knowledge Be Trustworthy Hold onto Health Glorify Work Be Happy They aren't forced to say it, but if it is said by the majority at every meeting aren't we at the same place of saying the Pledge of Allegiance with "under God"? here is a link to the Bay Area Campfire Council www.campfireusabayarea.org (This message has been edited by sctmom) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlyn_LeRoy Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 to kwc57, the Glen Schmidt quote is from a recent Scouting for All press release: http://www.scoutingforall.org/aaic/2002102901.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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