Society's attitude toward children

[sctmom]

This is not really related to scouting, but then again maybe because this is how the boys are being treated at school.

 

My middle school child was sick earlier this week, stomach virus that is going around. When he returned to school on Wednesday I reminded him to go to the restroom as often as possible to avoid any "accidents". He then informed me that they are not allowed to go to the bathrooms between classes. The bathrooms have been locked!

 

I called the school to clarify. This is a public middle school of 800 students in a middle class neighborhood, we don't have gangs of kids roaming the street. Some of the kids have been writing on the bathroom walls, so to "solve" the problem the principal has locked the bathrooms. The teachers have keys and take the students once or twice a day as a class. If a child needs to go at any other time, they can use THE restroom at the front of the school.

 

This is also the school where kids aren't allowed to go to their locker during the day. The principal finally gave in and they get to go there once during the middle of the day. Otherwise, they "waste valuable class time going to the lockers between classes". They MUST leave their backpacks in their lockers. There aren't enough lockers, so some kids are sharing and can't fit 2 backpacks into these little lockers. There are no plans to get more lockers.

 

Is it just me or does this sound nuts? The parents haven't been notified of any of this. We only hear through I children. Lots of information on the school website about football games but not about these "policies". When I talked to the secretary about the bathrooms being locked I asked if this was permanent. I was told "I don't know, it's what the principal decided."

 

Does this teach the children anything? Shouldn't something else be done before locking the bathrooms? Is this our society's way of solving problems?

 

Before you suggest it, I would homeschool but must work being a single parent. Have even tried to figure out a way to do both, but can't seem to do that.

 

 

[evmori]

Sounds like the Catholic grade school I attended as a lad!

 

Kids will be kids. Is writing on the bathroom walls wrong? You bet! Do all the kids in the school need to be punished because of this? No unless they all wrote on the walls. Should the school be monitoring the bathrooms to find out who the culprit(s) is? I think that is part of their job!

 

There could be a safety issue here, too. Locking the bathrooms seems to be a bit extreme to me. And I don't understand why they can't go to their lockers during the day.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[rlculver415]

We have similar rules down here - exceot for the locked bathrooms. We were told that bookbags were not allowed in classrooms because they can hide weapons, alcohol and other such undesirables. It was a school board decision, however, not the principal's. Hats are not allowed, drink bottles are questionable. Halls must be empty until 10 minutes before the start of school. Etc., etc., etc. Apparently all decisions made by the school board and therefore supported by the Student Advisory and Enhancement Council, the PTO and the administration. Someone quoted Ben Franklin on another thread - something about those who are willing to give up basic freedoms to gain a modicum of security deserve neither. (my paraphrase)

 

As for the writing on the walls - I've heard of a couple creative ways to limit this. One was when girls used to make kissy-lips on the walls using lipstick and then write some version of "---- loves ----" beside it. The custodian came in when a crowd was in the ladies room, plunged her mop in a toilet and proceeded to clean the walls. Grafitti stopped overnight. Another way is to forbid kids to take anything with them when they go to the restroom. No writings tools are available to them. This is what our high school does.

[sctmom]

I like the toilet water cleaning method! LOL

 

It's hard to stop kids from having a pen in their pocket.

 

I see a great reason for not carrying the bookbags -- ever walked through a crowd of kids with bookbags on their shoulders? The bookbags themselves are weapons!

At least our kids get to carry bookbags and they don't have to be see through.

 

It seems that the school doesn't want to deal with the real problems, just make blanket rules. Same as the other discussions about pocket knives and oversized keychains.

 

One time some kids in our small town got caught spray painting signs. Their punishment was to clean the signs at 6:00 on Saturday evening AFTER the cops got word around town as to where and when this would take place. Then everyone rode by and waved.

 

[acco40]

Simple solution, make the students police themselves. Declare that the restrooms will be open as soon as the students clean them.

 

This is how society operates. Some drive recklessly so there are speed limits FOR ALL. The majority usually ends up paying for the mistakes and behavior of the few.

[SR540Beaver]

The solution is simple. Surely there are more teachers than there are bathrooms. The teachers should pull bathroom duty to monitor the bathrooms for the few minutes between classes. They could set up a rotating schedule. Of course you are going to have teachers that say, "that isn't in my job description". Which is another problem with our society.

[berkshirescouter]

I think the reason they are not monitoring the bathrooms is a YPP issue. (Or whatever the schools would call it) Being alone with a child etc. In high school the students are not taking showers any more after PE because there is no monitoring and a change in modisty in boys. What kind of lesson in health does this teach? Norms change but not for the better sometimes.

[kittle]

Everything that has been mentioned here and lots that have happened at our own K-8 (of about 250 students) is why I homeschool my son and will homeschool my other son. I had firsthand experience with the school with my step-daughter (who I adopted this year) and knew that I could not handle it with anymore children.

 

Katrina

[acco40]

Reminds me of when I was in high school in the 70's. We had a smoking problem, students would congregate in the bathroom to smoke cigarettes. To stop this practice, the adminstration assigned each teacher a time period (between classes) to patrol the bathrooms. Needless to say, the teachers were not impressed and some started to wear arm bands with PP on them (Potty Patrol) in kind of a mock protest. The restroom patrols lasted all of one week.

[ASM7]

You know that this writing on the wall syndrome lasts a lifetime. We have adults that write on the walls of the restroom at work. The management installed dry-erase boards so they could write anything they want. Freedom of speech. Another tactic was to paint the walls gloss black. Very eerie but it worked. I like the idea of letting the kids clean the bathroom. And not just when they mess it up. Teaches responsibility to those that have their mommies clean up after them at home. You would probably be surprised who is actually doing the writing.

[Compass]

sctmom:

 

The bathrooms have been locked!

 

Simple solutions from simple minds.

 

This is also the school where kids aren't allowed to go to their locker during the day.

 

The hits just keep on comin'.

 

I suppose that, when the principal has problems with his car, he just locks it and leaves it on the side of the road-- forever.

 

The parents haven't been notified of any of this.

 

Hardly surpising.

 

Does this teach the children anything?

 

You bet. It teaches them that, after puberty, some humans lose two-thirds of their IQ.

 

Whatever our personal beliefs about the theory of evolution, some people demonstrate that, without question, devolution can occur in some people.

 

Shouldn't something else be done before locking the bathrooms?

 

Besides those suggestions mentioned earlier (especially the toilet water cleaning method-- priceless!), maybe some proactive hiring practices, like looking carefully into the background of principal candidates by those doing the hiring.

[ScoutParent]

Is the school board aware of this practice? Do you have a PTO/A; maybe they could address this situation. I would certainly find a forum to make sure the other parents are aware of this and start taking some steps to get it changed.

[SagerScout]

The middle school my son attended was in one of the most acclaimed school districts in Texas (which is like being the least-smelly of 400 rotten eggs), in a solidly middle class neighborhood. And when I visited - unfortunately a frequent occurrence since he was Spec Ed and we had about a zillion meetings about him - the strongest impression I got was that the administration saw the kids as inmates and their role as warden. All those repressive attitudes were front and center. The school has metal gates to keep the kids from entering the hallways too soon, they are not allowed to go to their lockers except at given times, random visits from drug dogs were expected, and on and on....

 

It was true - and desirable - that they took the kids' safety very seriously and did not allow any disruptive behaviors. But I found the us vs them attitude sad and disturbing.

 

julia

[sctmom]

I finally talked to the principal of this school. The reason the bathrooms are locked is that some students take too much time wandering to and from the bathroom and miss "important class time". Also, I was told repeatedly "all middle schools around here do this, why is it a surprise?" and "ANYONE with experience with middle school knows about this". "Well I haven't heard from anyone else".

 

Then she tried to tell me about keeping the kids safe -- I let her know that I'm a BSA leader and we all talk about how the schools don't come close to keeping kids safe!

 

So, we are telling the students "we don't trust you to walk across the hall to the bathroom and back in a timely manner"? Why not punish those who spend 30 minutes in there every day?

 

I asked my son if this had caused problems for anyone and he said yes, some students have been very close to not getting there on time. Then you have to hope that no one is in that ONE bathroom everyone uses.

 

The other great thing I was told "Even once we start a newsletter, we wouldn't put something this minor it. We can't let you know of EVERY little rule change we do."

 

:::::steam coming out of my ears:::::::::

 

Where next? PTO? School Board? Picketing outside the school? Letters to the paper?

 

 

 

[littlebillie]

definitely letters to the editor of the local papers, and if your community has a local tv station, bring it to their attention, as well.

 

frankly, there may be Civil Rights issues involved, and while I hate to think about what some may say about this, you may want to bring it to the attention of the ACLU. Seems like number one denied is both cruel AND unusual...